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[dtp-pmc] RE: DTP::Builds [Was: ODA plugin]

I think that Der Ping's comment in a parallel email to this thread about
showing progress with exemplary code answers the concerns that I had. Just
to clarify, I was not talking about the API but rather the overall
architecture of DTP in my comments. Also, Larry observed that a link to
road map and other documents would help in clarifying the current status. I
agree, and think that we should continue with the build as suggested by Der
Ping and Larry.

Moving the discussion to a higher level than just this build, I'd like to
point out a topic that's I feel I'll be coming back to from time to time.
Sure, there are lots of things we _can_ do, so my questions are to what
helps an open source project be a successful open source project at
eclipse.org. Leveraging the experience of others, in this case WTP and
BIRT, I submit is an important part of meeting that aim. So, I'd like to
thank everyone who has contributed to this thread, and I hope that we can
continue to share ideas like this going forward.

Regards,
John Graham



                                                                           
             "Linda Chan"                                                  
             <LChan@xxxxxxxxxx                                             
             m>                                                         To 
                                       "Der Ping Chou"                     
             08/26/2005 03:05          <dpchou@xxxxxxxxxx>, "Lawrence E    
             PM                        Dunnell" <ledunnel@xxxxxxxxxx>      
                                                                        cc 
                                       <dtp-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>,              
                                       <jograham@xxxxxxxxxx>               
                                                                   Subject 
                                       RE: DTP::Builds [Was: ODA plugin]   
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           




Der Ping,  Thanks for verifying that the Ant build script, provided in the
ODA source tree, does indeed build fine as is; and that adjusting your
workspace settings work as well.

Re: an "unified build system" for DTP, I agree with Larry and Der Ping that
we should move towards that.

Re: the separate concern for "accusations that we "keep changing
things.""... it should not be an issue.  It is quite common and well
understood that until an open source project has declared a final build,
any interim source or download builds are subject to change.


Furthermore, speaking for the ODA public interfaces, the package
description clearly states that the API is "provisional".   I believe this
is a recommended practice to indicate that the public APIs could still
change without backward compatibility support.   BTW, we do plan to provide
backward compatibility to the ODA public API defined in BIRT 1.0.


Linda
      -----Original Message-----
      From: Der Ping Chou [mailto:dpchou@xxxxxxxxxx]
      Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 11:41 AM
      To: Lawrence E Dunnell
      Cc: dtp-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx; jograham@xxxxxxxxxx; Linda Chan
      Subject: Re: DTP::Builds [Was: ODA plugin]


      John and Larry,

      First of all Linda helped me last night to make sure ODA build with
      script, I also adjusted my IDE to ensure they agree, we are OK in
      that regard. (Linda user from EclipseWorld will not see the build
      error now)

      I agree with you and Larry's proposal. Further more, since we have
      everything built (modelbase, connectivity subproject), we probably
      should go directly toward the 'unified build system' using what Larry
      published and we could consider building more than modelbase
      subproject in the build. We are not trading off stability of the
      build, but exposing a lots of exemplary code to demonstrate our
      progress.

      Larry was suggesting that we can have a staging build area/system to
      help team transition into 'unified build system'.
      We should be able to establish the 'unified build system' with
      following two subproject (modelbase and connectivity) and plugins:

      (Embedded image moved to file: pic09758.gif)

      Der-Ping Chou
      Information Management Tooling
      Development Manager - Data Tools
      Seattle IBM Office
      tel : 1-206-587-5946 (T/L: 277-5946)


                                                                           
 Lawrence E                                                                
 Dunnell/Redmond/IBM                                                       
                                                                           
                                                                        To 
 08/26/2005 11:01 AM                  jograham@xxxxxxxxxx                  
                                                                        cc 
                                      Der Ping Chou/Redmond/IBM@IBMUS,     
                                      dtp-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx, "Linda Chan"    
                                      <LChan@xxxxxxxxxxx>                  
                                                                   Subject 
                                      Re: DTP::Builds [Was: ODA plugin]    
                                      Link                                 
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           




      John,

      Are you suggesting that each project provide build scripts as an
      interim solution or a long term solution?  In the long term I think
      we will need a unified build system.

      As far as build systems I would suggest using the Eclipse build
      system which is hosted in the releng.builder plug-in.  The build
      person will be able to get a lot of support from the Eclipse
      community if we use it.  This system allows each subproject to be
      responsible for its build artifacts (mostly a collection of xml
      files) while still providing a "master" build script.  It also
      supports junit tests and existing tools for displaying the results in
      web pages.  If you look around the WTP project downloads website you
      can see various build logs and other artifacts generated by the build
      system.

      There is some information about it here:
      http://www.eclipse.org/articles/Article-PDE-Automation/automation.html


      Larry Dunnell
      RAD Data Tools and DB2 Tooling
      IBM DB2 Information Management Software

      Notes address: Lawrence E Dunnell/Redmond/IBM@IBMUS
      Internet address: ledunnel@xxxxxxxxxx
      tel: 206 587 5957
      tie line: 277 5957


                                                                           
 jograham@syb                                                              
 ase.com                                                                   
                                                                           
                                                                        To 
 08/26/2005                      "Linda Chan" <LChan@xxxxxxxxxxx>, Der     
 07:57 AM                        Ping Chou/Redmond/IBM@IBMUS, Lawrence E   
                                 Dunnell/Redmond/IBM@IBMUS                 
                                                                        cc 
                                 dtp-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx                       
                                                                   Subject 
                                 DTP::Builds [Was: ODA plugin]             
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           





      All,

      Sorry to be late getting back into this thread. I'd like to make a
      couple
      of observations here and ask for feedback from the group and the PMC:

      1. I have concerns about creating a simple DTP build at this point.
      Currently we have a number of (essentially) final models in CVS, a
      bunch of
      "sample" code, and some that is in transition. By "sample code" I
      mean the
      non-model ports from WTP/rdb. By "in transition" I mean ODA at this
      point
      and (some time really soon), the initial connectivity components from
      Rob.
      These "in transition" components will need to be integrated with the
      other
      DTP components and the samples will be replaced/augmented by DTP
      components
      later. Based on our previous discussions, my belief is that everyone
      here
      (and in DTP) understands and agrees to this (if not, then this would
      be a
      really good time to speak up.  :-)  ). My concern is that people
      picking up
      the build will not understand these distinctions, even if we go to
      pains to
      document them in the downloads/build pages. I think it would be a
      substantial disaster to introduce such confusion into the community,
      and
      that we'd spend a lot of time going forward sorting this out and
      responding
      to accusations that we "keep changing things." Given these
      considerations,
      I'd like to suggest three possibilities:

         a. We do a build of Model Base only
         b. We do separate builds: Model Base and the rest. The download
      for
      "the rest" is clearly explained to be samples/in transition.
         c. We build Model Base only and provide instructions on how to
      build
      the rest. The instructions make clear the sample/transitional nature
      of the
      components

      I would prefer (a) as my first choice, then (c) and finally (b). Of
      course,
      this does not preclude others (e.g. BIRT) from building directly from
      DTP:CVS for their own purposes. Once we get the code in a more
      unified
      state, then we can add more to the "DTP build." What this "more
      unified
      state" is would be determined by the PMC in conjunction with the DTP
      committers.

      2. Actually doing the builds: For the time being, I think we should
      put
      builds up manually as needs arise. For example, Der Ping and I have a
      talk
      next week about DTP, and it would be nice to have a Model Base build
      available. WTP wants to look at the connectivity frameworks, so I'd
      like to
      have a "build" (maybe not fully functional) of that as soon as Rob
      gets the
      initial code checked in. These builds could be done against a known
      base
      set ("driver", such as Eclipse version, etc.) by individuals and then
      posted on the site by me. Next, we'll move to automated
      builds/posting as
      we get more components together. Ultimately, we'd have unit tests
      run, and
      nice pictures (like the platform does) to show build status. Sybase
      has
      agreed to host the build machine itself. I'd like to suggest that
      each
      project be responsible for creating a build script that works within
      certain parameters (not yet determined), and then I'll make sure that
      the
      build machine automates running of those scripts. BTW, BIRT -- is
      there
      some way we can generate interesting build reports for positing on
      the
      site?

      Thoughts?

      Regards,
      John Graham
      Staff Software Engineer
      Sybase, Inc.
      telephone: (978) 287-1634  (GMT - 5)
      e-mail: john.graham@xxxxxxxxxx




                  "Linda Chan"

                  <LChan@xxxxxxxxxx

                  m>
      To
                                            "Der Ping Chou"
      <dpchou@xxxxxxxxxx>
                  08/25/2005 08:47
      cc
                  PM                        <jograham@xxxxxxxxxx>,
      "Lawrence E
                                            Dunnell" <ledunnel@xxxxxxxxxx>


      Subject
                                            RE: ODA plugin











      Hi Der Ping,

      The compiler warning on assert seems to be related to the javac
      option
      using a version older than 1.4 .
      Did you use the Ant build script that comes with the ODA plugin
      source
      tree?  It's called "build.xml" which references the
      "build.properties"
      file.   It explicitly specifies version 1.4 for javac.
      If so, perhaps there are other build environment options that should
      be set
      as well.   Please feel free to give me a call, so we can walk thru
      them.

      And yes, I fully agree that we need a build system in place for all
      the DTP
      components.  In fact, John and I have discussed that briefly...   we
      need
      volunteers to take this on   ;-)

      Linda
      office:  1-650-837-2217
           -----Original Message-----
           From: Der Ping Chou [mailto:dpchou@xxxxxxxxxx]
           Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 5:33 PM
           To: Linda Chan
           Cc: jograham@xxxxxxxxxx; Lawrence E Dunnell
           Subject: ODA plugin


           Linda,

           Since we don't have a build system in place for DTP yet. (I
      think it
           is something that we need to include in our milestone 1) While
           preparing course material for DTP in EclipseWorld, I was not
      able to
           build some helper classes (for example, odaDriver.java file -
      assert
           method is not defined) in org.eclipse.datatools.connectivity.oda
           plugin. Could you let me know what is the required build
      environment
           for oda?

           Thanks,

           Der-Ping Chou
           Information Management Tooling
           Development Manager - Data Tools
           Seattle IBM Office
           tel : 1-206-587-5946 (T/L: 277-5946)


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