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RE: [dsdp-pmc] TCF agent for windows: "works with"dependencyfordbghelp.dll

If a project has an external dependency, whether a "pre-req" or "works with", how can we alert the user to find the proper binaries?
 
Some freeware do a great job letting the user know they need a specific DLL and others just stop working or give a vague indication of what they require. I would prefer to have great documentation on the site, but I think a runtime component is essential as well.  So where is the dividing line on what is an acceptable indication to the user?
 
For example, if we have a non-fatal modal window with text similar to this: "This feature requires an external library that cannot be distributed. You will need to download and install it yourself. Instructions to download are at http://www.eclipse.org/DSDP/myproj/install_prereqs". Would this be OK? I'm guessing it is. 
 
What if we have the same window with text similar to this: "This feature requires an external library that cannot be distributed. You will need to download and install it yourself. One location to download is http://www.someothersite.com/foobar_project or use a search engine to find foobar.dll version 3.4.5 or later". Is it the link offensive? If the link is to the project page and not a direct download aren't we good?
 
Just trying to learn the ropes and not being argumentative (much).
 
-E


From: dsdp-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:dsdp-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Oberhuber, Martin
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 12:16 PM
To: DSDP PMC list
Subject: RE: [dsdp-pmc] TCF agent for windows: "works with"dependencyfordbghelp.dll

Hi Eric,
 
we'll certainly not be allowed to auto-download dbghelp.dll since that would be essentially the same as redistributing it ourselves. I'm not even sure if we're allowed to have links that directly navigate to the downloadable item. There must be one stage where end-users clearly see the license of the 3rd party lib.
 
In terms of docuware, yes, as we're going to create real download pages for TCF (and actually produce downlaodable artifacts), we'll make users aware that they need dbghelp.dll and where to get it.
 
Cheers,
--
Martin Oberhuber, Senior Member of Technical Staff, Wind River
Target Management Project Lead, DSDP PMC Member
http://www.eclipse.org/dsdp/tm
 
 


From: dsdp-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:dsdp-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of CLONINGER ERIC-DCP874
Sent: Montag, 26. Jänner 2009 16:47
To: DSDP PMC list
Subject: RE: [dsdp-pmc] TCF agent for windows: "works with" dependencyfordbghelp.dll

+1 from Eric Cloninger
 
Are there adequate instructions on the TCF web site for directing the user to the correct place?  How about in the runtime itself--can it determine that users have an inadequate version of the DLL?
 
-E


From: dsdp-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:dsdp-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Oberhuber, Martin
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 11:35 AM
To: DSDP PMC list
Subject: [dsdp-pmc] TCF agent for windows: "works with" dependency fordbghelp.dll

Dear PMC,
 
as per the new Eclipse 3rd Party Depencencies process [1]the TM project needs to document an external dependency from the plain C TCF agent to Microsoft "dbghelp.dll".
 
dbghelp.dll is a part of Microsoft Windows, but the version that's on the OS out of the box is buggy. For the debugger to work properly at runtime, users need to go to microsoft and download the newer version (for free). The DLL is marked as "redistributable", but none the less the Eclipse Legal Team has found sections in the license that prohibit us from redistributing it directly with the Eclipse.org downloads (see CQ 2553 [1]). Thus we request now to document it as 3rd party dependency, which basically means that products that want to use the TCF exemplary windows agent would have to bundle the microsoft dbghelp.dll.
 
Since the dbghelp.dll that we need is just a version update, the TCF agent can build without the external download, it can even run without the external download (though crippled), and on platforms other than Windows the download certainly isn't needed. I think that this clearly qualifies the dbghelp.dll as a "works-with" dependency.
 
As per the 3rd party dependencies process, the DSDP PMC now needs to discuss this publicly and agree that it is indeed a "works-with" dependency. Please read the process [1] for more information about how "works-with" is defined, then respond here on the mailing list with your +1 or -1 or comments or questions.
 
[1] http://www.eclipse.org/org/documents/Eclipse_Policy_and_Procedure_for_3rd_Party_Dependencies_Final.pdf
[2] https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2553
 
Thanks,
--
Martin Oberhuber, Senior Member of Technical Staff, Wind River
Target Management Project Lead, DSDP PMC Member
http://www.eclipse.org/dsdp/tm