Hi Doug's,
I'd propose that before proposing an "Embedded" package to
EPP, we should
have a good understanding ourselves of what such a package
should look like.
What are the plugins that are specifically relevant for the
embedded developer?
What's needed to get going when working embedded? I think
that these are
some questions we ought to understand better in the DSDP
space than in
the EPP space.
I haven't analyzed this in detail, but my feeling is that
there are at least some
components which are extremely helpful for an embedded
developer, but which
are not hosted at the Eclipse Foundation. Some
examples?
Or what would you folks think make up a good "Embedded CDT"
package?
Let's focus on Embedded CDT here for a start, knowing that
Embedded
Java is something different.... my personal feeling is that
consumers
are better off with a good FAQ / Readme etc on how to
properly consume
the current EPP package(s), the Europa / Ganymede site(s)
and Eclipse
Plug-In Central.
And, hopefully P2 will make it easier in the future to get
everythign
provisioned automatically... just imagine dependencies from
any number
of sites / plugin-repositories resolved fast and
automatically just like
in Debian Linux apt-get...
But perhaps it would make sense to focus on (a) specific
user group,
perhaps picking a toolchain for a simulator to start. TmL /
QEMU
might be a nice target to start with. Targeting hobbyists /
students
to get started with embedded development. Having a talk
with
a Product Marketing person could also help
here...
Cheers, -- Martin Oberhuber Wind River Systems,
Inc. Target Management Project Lead, DSDP PMC Member http://www.eclipse.org/dsdp/tm
Doug,
do you know how we can get this going in EPP? I’m not very familiar with
the project.
Doug
G
From:
dsdp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:dsdp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Doug Schaefer Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 12:59
PM To: General discussion of device software development platform
issues. Subject: RE: [dsdp-dev] Single distribution tarball for
Eclipse/CDT/DSDP/R SE
Yes, I
think an EPP package like an “Eclipse IDE for Embedded” would be an excellent
idea. This would be a great way for people who are hacking around on their own
with open source runtimes to get an instant setup for
Eclipse.
The
question will be what runtimes to provide support for and what plug-ins to
include. And, as with the “Eclipse IDE for C/C++” that we have in Europa,
after you download it, you still need to have a compiler, debugger, and other
necessary tools from other sources to do the grunt work. So it’s not truly an
IDE, or at least not a complete one.
Something
we should think about, though.
From:
dsdp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:dsdp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Oberhuber, Martin Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007
12:47 PM To: General discussion of device software development
platform issues. Subject: RE: [dsdp-dev] Single distribution tarball
for Eclipse/CDT/DSDP/RSE
Hi
Jim,
The
"combined downloads" you meantion for CDT are created by the Eclipse
Packaging Project (EPP). They kind of hand-pick the most widely
requested
combinations
to create starting packages. But that approach does not
scale
when
people want more tuned collections of packages.
Yes,
commercial vendors like Wind River and QNX make their pick of
plugins
and
deliver an integrated environment. We cannot do that in open
source
because
we don't know what exactly our clients need. That's where the
Update
Manager / Eclipse Discovery Site mechanism tunes in, which is used
for
Europa and Ganymede.
Start
with the EPP CDT Package Download, then Help > SOftware
Updates
>
Find and Install > Europa Discovery Site. Select what you think you
need,
then
"Select Required" to get all dependencies. Very much like the
Linux
packagers
(like Yast, APT and the like).
More
plugins can be acquired from Eclipse Plugin Central
(EPC).
It
currently doesn't go much simpler, though improvements to the
update
manager
are underway as part of P2 (Provisioning Project, currently
part
of the
Equinox incubator).
In
terms of getting started and delivering your favorite pick of plugins
--
I
suggest that you just install Eclipse locally, use Update Manager
to
get
what you need, then ZIP up the entire local installation; inside
the
ZIP
archive, remove the "configuration/" folder except for the
file
config.ini
What
you get is exactly a combined package of all the plugins
you
downloaded,
ready to deliver to your colleagues.
Does
that help?
Is
that the kind of information you'd like to see in an
FAQ?
Cheers, -- Martin Oberhuber Wind
River Systems, Inc. Target Management Project Lead, DSDP PMC Member http://www.eclipse.org/dsdp/tm
From:
dsdp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:dsdp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Jim Thomas Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 6:27
PM To: General discussion of device software development platform
issues. Subject: Re: [dsdp-dev] Single distribution tarball for
Eclipse/CDT/DSDP/RSE
You
will have to pardon me for being a rookie when it comes to Eclipse. I am
just getting started with it.
I see
what you mean about Europa and Ganymede providing checkpoints that nail down
version integrity.
I
suppose what I was hoping for was a merged up download including DSDP and
RSE like Eclipse/CDT at:
I see
now that with so many plugins, it isn't necessarily practical to anticipate
some universally desired combination, and mechanisms exist for users to add
plugins as wanted.
I
imagine vendors such as Wind River and QNX who use Eclipse/CDT in commercial
offerings will end up assembling the kind of package I envision, streamlined
for embedded developers. It would be nice if we had a free, generic
package that does the same, but that might be hard to do since it might
assume a particular target architecture or development board type and
toolchain.
I see
that as an alternative to using the Eclipse hosted Software Updates
mechanism to install the DSDP and RSE plugins, there is also a way to
download ZIP files and (presumably) do a manual install. That approach
might give me the version integrity I seek, between annual releases such as
Europa and Ganymede. My objective is to have only a small set of
tested files, and a minimal installation procedure, that our embedded
developers can use to bring up identical Eclipse development
platforms.
The
missing piece may be a simple 'getting started' guide that helps the Eclipse
novice get Eclipse/CDT, DSDP, and RSE up and running without so much web
searching to learn what those projects are, how they all tie together, and
the best way to assemble them (which I don't think I know yet). I
suspect each novice re-invents this wheel.
That
'getting started' guide may already exist, and I just haven't come across it
yet. I would think this rises to the level of an article at IBM
developerworks, O'Reilly, or one of the monthly Linux print
magazines.
In
any event, Eclipse/CDT/DSDP/RSE looks great, and if the price of admission
is a few days of web searching to figure it all out, it is still well worth
it.
----- Original Message
---- From: "Oberhuber, Martin"
<Martin.Oberhuber@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: General discussion of device
software development platform issues. <dsdp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx> Sent:
Wednesday, November 21, 2007 3:50:28 AM Subject: RE: [dsdp-dev] Single
distribution tarball for Eclipse/CDT/DSDP/RSE
Hello
Jim,
The
Eclipse "Europa" and "Ganymede" coordinated release
trains
seem
to do what you want - simultaneous releases with
version
integrity:
http://www.eclipse.org/projects/ganymede.php
You
don't get a single tarball, but you can get Eclipse
Platform
and
then grab all the other projects from the Ganymede
Update
Site
in a single step.
Besides,
I'm not sure what you mean with a "DSDP" project?
Cheers, -- Martin Oberhuber Wind
River Systems, Inc. Target Management Project Lead, DSDP PMC Member http://www.eclipse.org/dsdp/tm
From:
dsdp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:dsdp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Jim Thomas Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 5:35
PM To: dsdp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [dsdp-dev] Single
distribution tarball for Eclipse/CDT/DSDP/RSE
I
recently experimented with using Eclipse/CDT plus DSDP and RSE to
cross-compile and cross-debug from an x86 host running Fedora Core to an
ARM9 embedded target.
It
works great, and I would like to consider using this combination in a
production environment. But installing the several plugins from CVS
and carrying the plugins around as part of my project gives me
pause.
Are
there plans to roll up official versions of Eclipse, CDT, DSDP, and RSE,
and release them as a single, convenient distribution, like
Eclipse/CDT?
If
I could save that single distribution tarball and install it at will, with
guaranteed version integrity, Eclipse/CDT/DSDP/RSE is rather
compelling.
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