Hi Gents,
Thank you for (re)raising important and interesting issues both on Python and _javascript_.
As for _javascript_/JSDT I have a couple of minor additions to Johan's post:
- Joining JSDT and DLTK's _javascript_ have almost no sense from technical viewpoint. Historically _javascript_ component has been started to demonstrate JDT integration at DLTK's EclipseCon 2007 debut, since at that moment _javascript_ was most widely used JVM scripting language (Jython development was frozen at that moment, and JRuby did not out yet). Being based on the DLTK, JS depends heavily on DLTK Core, while JSDT is as much close as possible clone of the JDT. DLTK core itself is an attempt to clone-and-generalize JDT infrastructure, and make it reusable for IDE implementors. Nevertheless both projects have similar architectures (both are JDT-derived), they looks like, say Shakespeare's play translated to French and to German... Of course there are some things implemented better in one or another project, and DLTK JS can borrow some stuff from JSDT (like JS parser), this would not be *reuse*.
Anyway, and technically, joining both projects looks to be impossible at least because both projects do not have common base besides Eclipse Platform (which is too wide to talk about any cooperation between projects - obviously both project should have a kind of common base which would make such a cooperation possible, again, technically, this means some interoperability between components, models, APIs, etc, which makes any reusing possible.
- As for projects goals, there are also some differences, which Johan already mentioned: JSDT targeting to support Web development, which implies at least following:
-- support web browser host objects.
-- targeting to web browser as a runtime.
... and I believe JSDT plays very well on web browser field...
Opposite DLTK's JS targeted to wider _javascript_ usage as a general purpose language, and a language which runs in the JVM. This means DLTK's JS should support host objects of any type, should be integrated JVM/JDT (mixed mode debugging, IDE integration) and potentially with other JVM based languages, like Jython, Groovy, and JRuby; as well as provide development environment for _javascript_ as a general purpose language.
So here we come to very interesting potential evolution of DLTK-at-large - to be a kind of JVM IDE, which components would support development in different JVM based languages. This is a kind of subset of initial DLTK target, but for such a subset I can see a lot if unique features could be implemented (like mixed-mode debugging and Java<->[language]/[language]<->[lanugage] interoperability support, which is probably a huge demand from some developers. [Thanks a lot to Lothar expressing his interest in DLTK's Jython, which supports this assumption].
Back to DLTK's JS vs JSDT, I believe that companies like Servoy and froglogic, which technologies relies on JS language but not on the web browser as _javascript_ runtime would prefer to use DLTK instead of JSDT. Also I do not think it would be a big issue for JSDT guys to make their implementation more general purpose and support runtimes of any kinds including JVM and do some work on JDT integration (which also implies JSDT should not be a webtools subproject but independent one)... Opposite it's not a problem for DLTK's JS to support web browser host objects/runtime. However thinking further on languages interoperability JSDT would fail to deal with other mixed language environments, while DLTK have some good potential in this area.
Just to summarize: I see 2 very significant problems which makes collaboration between projects almost impossible 1) no technical base for such collaboration 2) slightly different project goals/orientation (web browsers vs. JVM/other runtimes).
- As for Python/Jython component, it becomes very significant in case DLTK would provide some work in JVM/JDT integration area... Very attractive :)
Any thoughts?
Thank you very much, and
Kind Regards,
Andrey Platov
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lothar Werzinger" <lothar@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "DLTK Developer Discussions" <dltk-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 10:43:25 PM GMT +06:00 Almaty, Novosibirsk
Subject: Re: [Dltk-dev] DLTK Release/Graduation Review follow up
On Monday 15 June 2009, Andrey Platov wrote:
> Hi Wayne,
>
>
> Thank you for summarizing action items. As for _javascript_ and Python the
> situation is following:
>
>
> Python: there are no engineers working on Python component for more than
> year, and as a result it's featureless and unsupported. DLTK Core team just
> trying to keep it consistent to work with DLTK Core Frameworks changes, but
> do not evolve further.
>
> Python is the biggest concern: our company do not have resources to work on
> it, and I'm not sure there are people around (in the ecosystem) who would
> be interested to take over the project... So Python termination could be
> another option (definitively sad one).
>
>
> As for Move Review, thank you for comment and for +1 :), I'll add "the
> reason for move" slide shortly and send you for comments.
We are using the Python component, but we are a small startup company and
don't have the resources to work on it ourselves. We would be interested in
code completion for the Python component and debugging with Jython.
I would be interested to talk to other Python users about sharing the costs to
sponsor infrastructure work like the aforementioned items.
Lothar
--
Lothar Werzinger Dipl.-Ing. Univ.
Director of Technology
Tradescape Inc. - Enabling Efficient Digital Marketplaces
1754 Technology Drive, Suite 128
San Jose, CA 95110
web: http://www.tradescape.biz
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