Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Source code in simrel aggregate repo

[David M Williams <david_williams@xxxxxxxxxx>]

We did not discuss it to that level (pros
and cons of including source) ... just that it is good to leave as much
as possible up to the independent projects to decide for themselves.  

"Common repository" is a misnomer
and I should be more careful not to call it that. It has never been the
intent to provide one repository with everything ... the intent is simply
to provide a repository for the Simultaneous Release: and its purpose is
to make it easier for users to find and get what they need for what ever
task or role that are focused on ... and the planning council thinks it
is best to leave decision or analysis up to the project and their community
and adopters. 

To give one example, that I just happen
to know you are interested in :) ... I think WTP decided many years ago
not to include source since the primary audience, web developers, did not
need the source, and having it there a) made it more complicated for the
casual end-user web developer to decide what to get (they likely don't
know if they need source or not) and b) if source was provided (either
automatically, or by user selection) it nearly doubles the download sizes
[just going by my old, possibly inaccurate memories] so it was decided
not to put source there in Sim. Rel. repo. 

I'm just trying to recount history ..
and admit it is confusing to call the repo by so many names ... not arguing
pro or con to include source or not ... the important point being that
we (Planning Council) want each project to be able to decide as much as
possible what to contribute . And with that, I will bow out of this discussion
as it is up to the project.

Thanks




From:      
 "Konstantin Komissarchik"
<konstantin.komissarchik@xxxxxxxxxx>
To:      
 "'Cross project
issues'" <cross-project-issues-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>, 
Date:      
 08/08/2013 11:11 AM
Subject:    
   Re: [cross-project-issues-dev]
Source code in simrel aggregate repo
Sent by:    
   cross-project-issues-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx

---

Thanks for the summary.
I would be curious to know what the arguments against contributing source
were… It seems to me that the status quo has led to inconsistency, an
antithesis to the point of having a common repository.
 
- Konstantin
 
 
 
From: cross-project-issues-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:cross-project-issues-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of David M Williams
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 11:39 PM
To: Cross project issues
Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Source code in simrel aggregate
repo
 
Since I promised ... just to close the loop
on this (my part of the loop, anyway), the Planning Council decided the
"status quo" was adequate as far as Planning Council was concerned
... that is, we won't say one way or the other and will continue to let
each project decide exactly what to contribute to common repository ...
based, as usual, on their interaction, requests, and feedback, with their
community and adopters, and their other priorities. 

Good luck and thanks, 




From:        "Konstantin
Komissarchik" <konstantin.komissarchik@xxxxxxxxxx>
To:        "'Cross
project issues'" <cross-project-issues-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>,
Date:        08/01/2013
05:04 PM 
Subject:        Re:
[cross-project-issues-dev] Source code in simrel aggregate repo
Sent by:        cross-project-issues-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx

---

Thanks, David. When thinking about plugin developers, I find it is useful
to further divide that group into those working on eclipse.org projects
and the rest. Those working on eclipse.org projects, especially those also
participating in the simultaneous release, need to track integration builds
of their dependencies, know where those come from, etc. The rest could
certainly benefit from being able to get everything they need (including
source) from the simultaneous release repo. 
  
I will start opening bugs for projects that don’t contribute source as
I need it for the Ultimate Edition. Let me know if the Planning Council
needs further input from me on this topic. 
  
Thanks, 
  
- Konstantin 
  
  
From: cross-project-issues-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:cross-project-issues-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of David M Williams
Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2013 1:42 PM
To: Cross project issues
Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Source code in simrel aggregate
repo 
  
I'll add to Planning Council Agenda, but you might "work you point
of view" through your Planning Council rep ... with a specific proposal.
I'm not sure "EPP" vs. "Common Repo" changes that much
(just in my opinion) since the common repo has been seen as primarily for
"end users" (granted, some end users are "developers of
plugins") so it'd be nice to have concise clear statement of what
projects "should do", in general. But, yes, you (anyone) can
always ask specific projects to do it differently ... we have no prohibition
against it. I know for WTP, many years ago, it was decided not to include
source, simply because it was felt developers "knew how to get the
source" from WTP's project and no reason to burden everyone else with
it. [And, believe me, the Planning Council has discussed many times and
could never even come up with a good definition of "SDK" :)  ...
well, you know, one that applied to all Eclipse projects.]. 

This history is one of the reasons we (me especially) recommend people
do not "build against" the common repo ... but, instead build
against each individual project they want ... but I know that advise usually
goes unheeded (but was happy when I once saw you give the same advice :)

Thanks for your efforts, 




From:        "Konstantin
Komissarchik" <konstantin.komissarchik@xxxxxxxxxx>
To:        "'Cross
project issues'" <cross-project-issues-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>,
Date:        08/01/2013
02:18 PM 
Subject:        Re:
[cross-project-issues-dev] Source code in simrel aggregate repo
Sent by:        cross-project-issues-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx

---

I suspect that what has happened in at least some of the cases is that
the requirements of the corresponding EPP package drove what was contributed
to the simrel repository. A natural effect, but not ideal, since the user
base for the simrel repo is more diverse in their requirements.
 
Should this continue to be at project’s discretion or should contributing
source to simrel repo be a requirement? I doubt that projects would object
to contributing source if asked, but maybe it would be better spelled out
up front. 
 
- Konstantin 
 
 
From: cross-project-issues-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:cross-project-issues-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of David M Williams
Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2013 10:50 AM
To: Cross project issues
Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Source code in simrel aggregate
repo 
 
This has always been viewed to be the contributing project's decision.
(Which ... is true in general ... some projects do not contribute ALL their
features to common repo; such as perhaps not examples, perhaps not some
of the rarer functions, etc.). I know for WTP, it was thought best to minimize
download (so no source ... last I knew), since it was intended for people
developing web apps ... not for people developing plugins for WTP. 

Hope that answers what you were asking. 





From:        "Konstantin
Komissarchik" <konstantin.komissarchik@xxxxxxxxxx>
To:        "'Cross
project issues'" <cross-project-issues-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>,
Date:        08/01/2013
12:58 PM 
Subject:        [cross-project-issues-dev]
Source code in simrel aggregate repo 
Sent by:        cross-project-issues-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx

---

As part of working on the definition for Eclipse Ultimate Edition, I have
discovered that a number of prominent projects do not contribute source
to the simrel repo. Before I start opening bugs, is there prior context
or discussion on whether or not source code should be in the simrel repo?
Note that I am not asking whether source code should be in a particular
package as that’s dependent on the user that the package is targeting.

Thanks, 

- Konstantin_______________________________________________
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