Hi Doug,
mylyn is the feature I miss most in all ohter IDEs that I am
using. Last week,
gave a 3 day design patterns tutorial based on Qt and I used
QtCreator for
build and debug and CDT for browsing and refactoring
(unfortunately CDT does
not like some of the Qt extensions to C++ and it shows sometimes
lots of
annoying errors). But, I realized how much I like the task focused
browsing
in Mylyn. Even on a small project with 30 classes and 60 files, it
was
like wow!
However, mylyn is clearly not a core feature of CDT and it somehow
blows
up the UI. If eclipse would have better plugin-in discovery or
even a plugin-in
proposal feature I'd say remove it. I remember that installing
Mylyn for CDT
was a major challenge some years ago: you have to install the base
Mylyn
and then the C++ connector and well some other connectors
(screenshot
taken form the JEE package):
This is difficult and confusing for some people. But so is pretty
much
all of the installation. Using the marketplace is even more
confusing:
And if you search form `mylyn cdt` it gets even more confusing:
So, my guess is, that only really engaged eclipse geeks will
search for mylyn and be able to install it correctly. Some
may install the basic mylyn with the task support and some
issue tracker support. But I wonder how many will be able
to install it correctly including the CDT connector....
Michael
On 2015-10-19 20:26, Doug Schaefer wrote:
Well, that wasn’t the original intent of the packages. The
idea was to provide a collection of features that a specific
segment of the community would be interested in. What we’re
saying is that the C++ segment of our community may not be
interested in Mylyn.
And as I’ve argued for other proposals, I don’t think
throwing features into the packages is a good way to help those
features become discoverable. It would be interesting to survey
package users whether they even noticed Mylyn’s features were
available to them or even whether they know what the Task List
view was for, even if they noticed it was there. You need to
have proper marketing of the features if you want users to know
about them.
Packages exist because we didn’t have a good installer. I
think we have a little ways to go but I can see a time where
we’ll even wonder whether we want the packages any more because
everyone is using the installer instead. In that case your
argument about a common baseline would be valid because the
installer could have a baseline. And we can argue then whether
Mylyn should be in it.
Doug.
Don’t forget the builds/hudson/jenkings integration.
In my opinion, these type of decisions should not be
made at a per-package level. I would urge package
owners to not deviate unnecessarily from a common
baseline.
- Konstantin
From: Marc-André Laperle
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 10:48 AM
To: Eclipse Packaging Project;CDT General
developers list.
Subject: Re: [epp-dev] [cdt-dev] Mylyn in
C/C++ EPP?
We could just keep the
"Mylyn Task List" feature. I'm not sure Bugzilla is
really needed as there are so many other popular bug
trackers and there is an "Install Connectors" UI to
find them.
Marc-Andre
![]()
I would urge caution.
Mylyn isn’t just context-constraining UI, it’s
also integration with the bug tracking
systems, which is a feature commonly expected
of an IDE. Discoverability of features is a
serious problem that Eclipse ecosystem
continues to struggle. While insiders would
know to install Mylyn if they want this, a
developer new to Eclipse would simply conclude
that Eclipse lacks integration with bug
tracking systems. This isn’t a hypothetical
scenario. We’ve seen it unfold with other
features and it hurts our competitive
position.
- Konstantin
From: Doug Schaefer
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 10:25
AM
To: CDT General developers list.;epp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [epp-dev] [cdt-dev]
Mylyn in C/C++ EPP?
Yeah,
it’s a bit sad in a way. The Mylyn gang kindly
built the CDT extension for it which
encouraged us to add it in to the C++ package.
But I have to admit I never use it. I hope
others do.
At any
rate, it might fit into that category of
things that should be in the Marketplace and
people can add it on later if they want it.
Hello,
I'm wondering if people use Mylyn in the
context of the C/C++ EPP. I'm thinking perhaps
it could be removed from the EPP if it's not
really used. It would clear up some things in
the UI and make the package a bit lighter
(start-up time and size).
Let me know what you think!
Marc-Andre
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