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Re: [cdt-dev] FW: New topic in forum C / C++ IDE (CDT), called Why can't it "just work"?, by Rob Lewis
Last time I checked, IDEs were for getting serious work done more quickly, not a my-first-code environment. First timers should be running g++ from the command line or a makefile as that's pretty much the first thing you need to learn to get anything going. It's not that hard, either. gcc hello.c ; ./a.out

Just as I'd laugh at someone claiming to be a pro and using vim in a professional context, I'd strongly recommend that a beginner does exactly that with a plain editor, and learns the syntax through trial and error and gains a deep understanding of the basics.

Also, C++ is hardly a good language to cut your teeth on, it's more like taking a spin around the nurburgring in your corolla with learner plates. Throwing a kid in a google self driving car for a few laps won't help.

Anyway, my point was to try and get Doug to cheer up, CDT is f***ing awesome. All software has issues. All software always will have some issues. CDT was great when I first tried it, and it's 10 times better now than then. Software is complex, and takes time, that's no less true when volunteers are writing it. Chin up, Doug! You're thoroughly appreciated in this corner, as are all of your colleagues around the globe.

Regards,

Fred.

On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 10:19 PM, Jesper Eskilson <jesper.eskilson@xxxxxxx> wrote:


On 2015-10-21 06:13, Fred Cooke wrote:
I've been using CDT since 2008 or so when it was still a baby, and I've been loving it ever since. Not knowing what a toolchain is? Really? This is something you have to learn. What's a build tool? What's continuous integration? What's source control? None of these are obvious if you know nothing.


 C++ is a nightmare to learn without having to battle the tooling around it. Yes, eventually professional C++ developers need to know what a toolchain (etc, etc) is, but getting hit by these things while trying to learn the basics of C++ will almost certainly scare of a fair share of people who could become good programmers in time. I know that I've given up on learning a number of "interesting" languages/tools/frameworks simply because the initial threshold was too painful.

/Jesper


I've had a number of people come to me somewhat surprised over the years exclaiming "I tried CDT for eclipse the other day, and it's not bad!" in a surprised tone. To which I reply, Yes, I've been using it for many years, I know.

Could "you" do better? Sure, software can always be improved! Should you feel unhappy when some ungrateful bastard like that tells you your hard work is a pile of shit? Hell no! If I'd listened to all of those people every time they said it, I'd have pulled my efforts from my FOSS project years ago. But I've not, because screw the haters! :-)

As you were!

Fred.

On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 4:19 PM, Doug Schaefer <dschaefer@xxxxxxx> wrote:
The request I was referring to was to "take pity on beginning C++ programmers". When they install the C++ IDE for Eclipse it should just work, right out of the box. It should make sure a toolchain is installed so they don't need to learn what a toolchain is. That feeling they have frustrated by Eclipse is something that will stick with this poor student forever and that impacts they're perception of Eclipse for C++ as they enter the workforce.

It's comments like theirs that make me want to rip the C++ IDE off of the Eclipse download site. It's horrible for true beginners. We can do better.

Doug.

From: cdt-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [cdt-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] on behalf of Alena Laskavaia [elaskavaia.cdt@xxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2015 10:45 PM
To: CDT General developers list.
Subject: Re: [cdt-dev] FW: New topic in forum C / C++ IDE (CDT), called Why can't it "just work"?, by Rob Lewis

So use clang on Mac or some-how redistribute gcc?
We can also generate code using our indexer :) I am sure hello world we can manage.
They also want managed build which we are trying to kill... "The symbol could not be resolved" is because from missing a library
and unless we managing the build we cannot help them.
But yes it would be awesome if toolchain and builder comes with CDT and you don't even know it exists.

On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 11:28 AM, Doug Schaefer <dschaefer@xxxxxxx> wrote:
This is an awesome request.

From: "forums-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxx" <forums-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Tuesday, October 20, 2015 at 10:40 AM
To: Doug Schaefer <dschaefer@xxxxxxx>
Subject: New topic in forum C / C++ IDE (CDT), called Why can't it "just work"?, by Rob Lewis

Subject: Why can't it "just work"? Author: Rob Lewis Date: Tue, 20 October 2015 14:40
My son began his CS education writing Java with Eclipse. I've actively followed his progress, in part to update my own programming knowledge.

Now he (we) have moved on to C++, and after installing the CDT, Eclipse's ease of setup and use seem to have ended in a morass of confusing options and obscure (and apparently wrong) settings that prevent writing and running the simplest of programs without hours of often fruitless research trying to figure out what needs to be changed ("The symbol cout could not be resolved"? Really? What, please, is a "toolchain"? Could we get a more helpful error message than "syntax error"?)

All these options and settings might be valuable to very senior programmers who appreciate such fine-grained control of their IDE, but it seems to me there is a great need for a Mac student-level C++ package that "just works" without all the drama. (I actually don't know if other OS versions of Eclipse have the same problems, but I suspect they may.)

Is there any possibility that Eclipse's developers will take pity on beginning C++ programmers?
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--
Jesper Eskilson Development Engineer
IAR Systems AB

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