Re: [cdt-dev] 3.8 vs. 4.2

[Doug Schaefer <dschaefer@xxxxxxx>]

I agree with the UI on p2. It's sad because p2 is such a powerful install
management technology, but the UI and error messages in particular are
bewildering to end users. And that's an all too often occurrence bringing
Eclipse to our C/C++ users.

Doug.  

On 12-07-08 8:53 PM, "kesselhaus" <kesselhaus@xxxxxxx> wrote:

>Hi folks,
>
> From my view as a user, I have encountered some things, that still work
>on 3.8 but not on 4.2.
>Some seem to be even platform related.
>
>a) the already mentioned buttons on Macro-Expansion Dialog are not even
>enabled in 4.2
>b) When you have lots of files open, there is a button in the tab view
>with a number, when you click on it, a view appears with all open editors.
>     When you right-click on a name, and close editors, this view is not
>updated in 4.2 unless you reopen the view.
>c) (Linked) Resources  configuration, when you add path variables, they
>are not updated right away, you have to close the dialog and reopen it,
>before you can add more variables, which should extend your just created
>ones. (Well, they are shown in the dialog, but when you create another
>one, you can not extend one just created before).
>
>Such UI quirks go on an on, and somehow I feel, 4.x is just a move
>backwards than forward.
>
>The same feelings I have for p2, which sometimes really seems to be
>stupid.
>Like when updating something, and it says, it can't install, because a
>plugin of version x is already installed etc pp.
>Somehow I also got the feeling, that using the timestamp in the release
>plugin versioning scheme was a bad idea.
>I'm not sure, how many plugins have been rebuild with the same
>maj.minor.bugfix version, but just different timstamp, but I have come
>across many of them already. Sometimes, you can't even update the same
>plugin, becauuse of that quirks, and the only solution would be a
>uninstall of the old and then install the new version. Which makes the
>Update-option kind of useless.
>If you ever wanted a directory compare on two eclipse installations,
>take a look on the different plugins, which have the same version
>numbers but just with a different timestamp .. you can't really compare
>that. For me, this make just no sense!
>Questioning this approach on a bugzilla discussion was stopped kind of
>rude by the platform.
>
>Interesting enough, that somehow all the packages on eclipse download
>page are now green check makrs, and not big red X's. Because the test
>results linked above are still red. How would that make much confidence
>for using eclipse 4.2?
>On the other side, wasn't the main idea of 4.2, that everyone could
>style there eclipse to their likings using the EMF model and style
>sheets, but where are these tools? At least they are not included in the
>downloadable SDK packages. No, for this you would need to download the
>e4 packages with a version of what .. 0.12? Not very trustwoorthy the
>number. But what is now the real outcome of the 4.2 stream? AFAIK, that
>was now the 4th release of the 4.x stream.
>
>Regards,
>kessel
>
>Am 06.07.2012 09:19, schrieb Alex Blewitt:
>> On 5 Jul 2012, at 23:16, Doug Schaefer <dschaefer@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> Clearly the issues with 4.2 will
>>> need to be resolved. I'll just feel more comfortable when the community
>>> shows plans to make that happen and we can all move forward.
>> I think one of the main issues was that most people haven't used 4.2
>>and thus a limited set of bugs reported etc. With the default Juno
>>install out of the way it's now got much more visibility.
>>
>> I thought there were more problems for a custom product I had - but
>>there were some properties added in 4.2 which are mandatory (one being
>>the reference to the e4xmi file). Once I added that to my product
>>definition things started working better. If you don't have this
>>property then the UI looks awful and the appearance page throws an NPE.
>>
>> The main thing I've noticed is the fast view incorrect sizing when the
>>welcome page is shown. Once the welcome page is closed the fast view
>>behaves better.
>>
>> As for 3.8, I have that as a private backup plan for those that really
>>can't use it. But I've found no problems yet that are making me regret
>>that decision.
>>
>> I imagine when 4.2sr1 comes out many of these little niggles will be
>>resolved.
>>
>> As for when you can depend on new features - many parts built on
>>Eclipse run on older runtimes, like Mylyn (3.6) and EGit (3.7 now I
>>think). So they aren't likely to be taking advantage either.
>>
>> On the other hand when Mylyn and EGit become 4.x only - probably in
>>2014 - then the benefits may outweigh any issues with the UI :-)
>>
>> Alex
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