[
Date Prev][
Date Next][
Thread Prev][
Thread Next][
Date Index][
Thread Index]
[
List Home]
|
RE: [dsdp-dd-dev] RE: [cdt-dev] New Debug Model (was: Editor tech nology subgroup)
|
Actually I don't get double postings. Eclispe.org seems to filter these out
correctly, or maybe it's my Outlook...
I have no problem talking about embedded specific requirements on the DSDP
lists, but when it comes to proposing designs for the CDT, this will need to
be done in front of the whole CDT community since it does impact them all.
And I do have examples of members of the CDT community that were surprised
by things that affected them because they were not following the DSDP list.
Doug Schaefer, QNX Software Systems
Eclipse CDT Project Lead, Tools PMC member
http://cdtdoug.blogspot.com
-----Original Message-----
From: dsdp-dd-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:dsdp-dd-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Gaff, Doug
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 11:03 AM
To: CDT General developers list.; Device Debugging developer discussions
Subject: [dsdp-dd-dev] RE: [cdt-dev] New Debug Model (was: Editor technology
subgroup)
Thanks Martin for responding to the group,
Everyone: my apologies for not responding sooner. I've been away from
email for a few days.
I am working on internal signoffs so that Pawel and Ted can commit the
code they've been working on to CVS. All managerial signoffs are
complete...it's now headed to legal.
Also, if no one objects, can I propose that we use the dsdp-dd-dev
mailing list for debug model discussions? I'm not trying to exclude
folks, I'd just like to limit the extraneous cross-posting traffic for
folks who read both lists like myself. There are several CDT companies
in DD, and we will be keeping the CDT requirements in mind as we work on
a new implementation.
Doug G
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cdt-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:cdt-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx]
On
> Behalf Of Oberhuber, Martin
> Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 6:06 AM
> To: Device Debugging developer discussions; CDT General developers
list.
> Subject: [cdt-dev] New Debug Model (was: Editor technology subgroup)
>
> Hi,
>
> while Doug Gaff is at the WR User Conference in Orlando,
> let me go ahead and start the new thread :-)
>
> Yes, Pawel P has made quite some progress on prototyping
> against the Flexible Debug Model. Sine quite a bit of this
> is based on former WR proprietary code, we'll need to wait
> for IP clearance before we can actually make a contribution.
>
> We hope this to happen anytime soon.
>
> Cheers,
> Martin
> --
> Martin Oberhuber - WindRiver, Austria
> +43(662)457915-85
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: dsdp-dd-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:dsdp-dd-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ewa Matejska
> > Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 8:43 PM
> > To: CDT General developers list.; Device Debugging developer
> > discussions
> > Subject: RE: [cdt-dev] RE: [dsdp-dd-dev] Editor technology subgroup
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I propose starting a new thread for future communications about the
> > Debug Model since there's a technology subgroup in the
> > DSDP-DD. I would
> > like to leave this thread for Editor
> > enhancement/ideas/requests focusing
> > on embedded development.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Ewa.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cdt-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:cdt-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> > On Behalf Of Greg Watson
> > Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 10:45 AM
> > To: CDT General developers list.
> > Subject: Re: [cdt-dev] RE: [dsdp-dd-dev] Editor technology subgroup
> >
> > I got confused by all the Dougs. :-) I'd like to work with anyone on
> > this!
> >
> > Greg
> >
> > On May 12, 2006, at 9:48 AM, Mikhail Khodjaiants wrote:
> >
> > > Doug S,
> > >
> > > I sent my previous message before I saw yours. It is for Doug G
> > >
> > > Mikhail K
> > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Schaefer"
> > <DSchaefer@xxxxxxx>
> > > To: "CDT General developers list." <cdt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 11:46 AM
> > > Subject: RE: [cdt-dev] RE: [dsdp-dd-dev] Editor technology
subgroup
> > >
> > >
> > >> Which Doug is everyone talking about :).
> > >>
> > >> Since the Greg's note was sent to cdt-dev, I thought it was for
> > >> me. This
> > >> note sounds like it is for Doug G...
> > >>
> > >> Doug Schaefer, QNX Software Systems
> > >> Eclipse CDT Project Lead, Tools PMC member
> > >> http://cdtdoug.blogspot.com
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: cdt-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:cdt-dev-
> > >> bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On
> > >> Behalf Of Mikhail Khodjaiants
> > >> Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 11:35 AM
> > >> To: CDT General developers list.
> > >> Subject: Re: [cdt-dev] RE: [dsdp-dd-dev] Editor technology
subgroup
> > >>
> > >> Doug,
> > >>
> > >> There was a special group formed among others at the last DSDP
> > >> meeting to
> > >> work on the design of the debug model. I volunteered to
> > >> participate, but I
> > >> haven't heard anything since. You mentioned that Pavel and
> > Ted are
> > >> doing
> > >> some work in this direction. Is there any new information
> > >> available on what
> > >> they are doing?
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >> Mikhail Khodjaiants
> > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Watson"
> > >> <g.watson@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > >> To: "CDT General developers list." <cdt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > >> Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 11:11 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: [cdt-dev] RE: [dsdp-dd-dev] Editor technology
subgroup
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> Doug,
> > >>>
> > >>> I wonder if we could be involved in the design of the next
> > >>> generation
> > >>> debugger model? We're also looking at how to use the flexible
> > >>> debug model
> > >>
> > >>> for the parallel debugger. Since we reused considerable
> > portions
> > >>> of CDT
> > >>> debugger functionality in the parallel debugger implementation,
> > >>> it would
> > >>> make sense to try and combine efforts here.
> > >>>
> > >>> Greg
> > >>>
> > >>> On May 12, 2006, at 8:19 AM, Doug Schaefer wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> BTW, Welcome Toni!
> > >>>>
> > >>>> We've been in need of some focus on the CDT editor for a while
> > >>>> and I
> > >>>> look
> > >>>> forward to your contributions.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Cheers,
> > >>>> Doug Schaefer, QNX Software Systems
> > >>>> Eclipse CDT Project Lead, Tools PMC member
> > >>>> http://cdtdoug.blogspot.com
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>>> From: dsdp-dd-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > >>>> [mailto:dsdp-dd-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Gaff,
Doug
> > >>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 2:43 PM
> > >>>> To: Device Debugging developer discussions
> > >>>> Cc: Leherbauer, Anton; CDT General developers list.
> > >>>> Subject: RE: [dsdp-dd-dev] Editor technology subgroup
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Hi folks,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I've asked Toni Leherbauer from my team to provide input
> > on the
> > >>>> editor.
> > >>>> Toni is currently looking at enhancing the CDT editor and is
> > >>>> collecting
> > >>>> some features on the CDT project plan.
> > >>>> http://wiki.eclipse.org/index.php/CDT/planning/4.0
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Since there is interest in the editor in both the CDT and DD
> > >>>> projects,
> > >>>> we should keep both groups in the loop. And of course, we
> > >>>> should have
> > >>>> one editor solution in the end (in CDT). We started
> > discussing
> > >>>> this in
> > >>>> the DD project in Toronto simply as a way to capture
> > >>>> requirements as
> > >>>> they related to debugging.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Also, as I mentioned on the recent DD call, Ted and Pawel are
> > >>>> working on
> > >>>> a prototype for a generic debugger implementation of the
> > Eclipse
> > >>>> 3.2
> > >>>> debug model interfaces (EDMI 3.2 for short). The goal
> > is that this
> > >>>> prototype will form the basis of a next-generation debugger
> > >>>> model that
> > >>>> benefits folks using CDT and folks working directly with the
> > >>>> Eclipse
> > >>>> platform today. We intend to get this committed in the
> > next few
> > >>>> weeks
> > >>>> so that the community can start discussing architecture,
> > >>>> interfaces, and
> > >>>> requirements.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> So regarding the editor, I see open questions around how we
> > >>>> integrate
> > >>>> disassembly, breakpoints, instruction pointers, etc. with a new
> > >>>> debugger
> > >>>> implementation. I am also wondering how the editor will
> > deal with
> > >>>> multiple debug engines simultaneously (for example, how
> > to set the
> > >>>> default breakpoint scope).
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Doug
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>>>> From: dsdp-dd-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:dsdp-dd-dev-
> > >>>>> bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Doug Schaefer
> > >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 2:18 PM
> > >>>>> To: Device Debugging developer discussions
> > >>>>> Subject: RE: [dsdp-dd-dev] Editor technology subgroup
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Well, the Using Visual C++ 5 book that I have in front
> > of me right
> > >>>> now,
> > >>>>> copyright 1997, shows their Disassembly View which interleaves
> > >>>>> source
> > >>>> and
> > >>>>> disassembly.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Mind you it's a view and not an editor. But then, why
> > would you
> > >>>>> edit
> > >>>> in
> > >>>>> this
> > >>>>> window? Does the assembly get updated based on the source
> > >>>>> changes you
> > >>>>> make?
> > >>>>> Can you edit the assembly and have the source updated?
> > (That'd be
> > >>>> cool,
> > >>>>> BTW
> > >>>>> :).
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> What was the original use case again?
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Cheers,
> > >>>>> Doug Schaefer, QNX Software Systems
> > >>>>> Eclipse CDT Project Lead, Tools PMC member
> > >>>>> http://cdtdoug.blogspot.com
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>>>> From: dsdp-dd-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > >>>>> [mailto:dsdp-dd-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
> > Recoskie,
> > >>>>> Chris
> > >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 1:30 PM
> > >>>>> To: Device Debugging developer discussions
> > >>>>> Subject: RE: [dsdp-dd-dev] Editor technology subgroup
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I'm guessing the person I was talking to was referring to US
> > >>>>> patent #
> > >>>>> 6,493,868. Like I said I'm not a patent lawyer so I'm not
> > >>>>> going to
> > >>>>> comment as to whether or not it is truly applicable or
> > not. It
> > >>>>> seems
> > >>>>> very broad and I'm not sure of the rules as to how it does or
> > >>>>> does not
> > >>>>> apply to specific features in IDEs.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Anyway take a look and due your due diligence. It may be a
> > >>>>> non issue.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> =====================
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> United States Patent 6,493,868
> > >>>>> DaSilva , et al. December 10, 2002
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > >>>> --- --
> > >>>>> --------
> > >>>>> Integrated development tool
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Abstract
> > >>>>> An integrated code development tool, comprising of an editor,
a
> > >>>> project
> > >>>>> management and build system, a debugger, a profiler, and a
> > >>>>> graphical
> > >>>>> data visualization system. The editor is operable to provide a
> > >>>>> source
> > >>>>> code view which is simultaneously capable of
> > integrating with said
> > >>>>> debugger to provide for stepping through code and setting
> > >>>>> breakpoints,
> > >>>>> and integrating with the output of said build system to
> > >>>>> display source
> > >>>>> code interleaved with corresponding assembler code
> > created by said
> > >>>> build
> > >>>>> system.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> ___________________________________________
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Chris Recoskie
> > >>>>> Software Designer
> > >>>>> Texas Instruments, Toronto
> > >>>>> http://eclipse.org/cdt
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>>>>> From: dsdp-dd-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:dsdp-dd-dev-
> > >>>>>> bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John Cortell
> > >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 11:51 AM
> > >>>>>> To: Device Debugging developer discussions
> > >>>>>> Subject: RE: [dsdp-dd-dev] Editor technology subgroup
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> If this is true, it's extremely surprising. Interleaved
> > >>>>>> source/disassemble is a staple in many debuggers. How a
company
> > >>>> would
> > >>>>>> go about successfully patenting the implementation of such a
> > >>>>>> feature
> > >>>>>> in an open source product is puzzling, to say the least.
> > >>>> Copyrighting
> > >>>>>> an implementation is one thing; patenting the idea is another
> > >>>>>> story.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> John
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> At 10:28 AM 5/10/2006, Recoskie, Chris wrote:
> > >>>>>>> A caveat:
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> I have heard that TI holds a patent on showing interleaved
> > >>>>>>> source/disassembly in the editor window (but not in other
> > >>>>>>> windows,
> > >>>> so
> > >>>>>>> the current Disassembly View does not infringe this
> > patent as I
> > >>>>>>> understand it). I don't think it would be any sort of
> > >>>>>>> problem to
> > >>>> get
> > >>>>>>> this patent licensed royalty-free to Eclipse for such
> > a feature,
> > >>>> but
> > >>>>> it
> > >>>>>>> is an IP issue that will have to go through due
> > diligence for
> > >>>>>>> sure.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Disclaimer: I am not a patent lawyer and I have no
> > authority to
> > >>>>> license
> > >>>>>>> the aforementioned patent, if it exists, on behalf of TI.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> ___________________________________________
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Chris Recoskie
> > >>>>>>> Software Designer
> > >>>>>>> Texas Instruments, Toronto
> > >>>>>>> http://eclipse.org/cdt
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>>>>>>> From: dsdp-dd-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:dsdp-dd-dev-
> > >>>>>>>> bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John Cortell
> > >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 9:19 AM
> > >>>>>>>> To: Device Debugging developer discussions;
> > >>>>> dsdp-dd-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [dsdp-dd-dev] Editor technology subgroup
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Ewa,
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> What are the BV bug numbers? They're not Bugzilla
> > reports from
> > >>>>> what I
> > >>>>>>> can
> > >>>>>>>> tell.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> I entered a bugzilla report for "Jump to Line" a while back
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=118147
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> We are also very interested in mixed disassembler/source
mode
> > >>>>>>>> debugging. It seems this would be best implemented
> > if indeed
> > >>>>>>>> all
> > >>>>>>>> three modes are provided in the editor. Your
> > suggested approach
> > >>>>> seems
> > >>>>>>>> feasible to me; the debugger could generate files on the
fly.
> > >>>> The
> > >>>>>>>> trick would be to make that approach look natural
> > to the user,
> > >>>> so
> > >>>>>>>> he's not aware that he's looking at a temporary file.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> John
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> At 08:46 PM 5/9/2006, Ewa Matejska wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>> Hi,
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> I'm soliciting ideas for enhancements to the Editor to
> > >>>>>>>>> improve
> > >>>>> the
> > >>>>>>>>> embedded development experience.
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Possible ideas are:
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> 1. Add the "Jump to Line" option the editor margin menu.
> > >>>>> BV118147.
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> 2. Merge the Disassembly view into the Editor.
> > This could be
> > >>>>>>>>> achieved in having a special read-only debug file for each
> > >>>> debug
> > >>>>>>>>> session whose state would toggle between source,
disassembly
> > >>>> and
> > >>>>>>>>> mixed in some way. Related bug is BV39644.
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> These ideas will be captured at:
> > >>>>>>>>> http://wiki.eclipse.org/index.php/DSDP/DD/Editor
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Chris Recoskie, as the lead of the Disassembly View, what
do
> > >>>> you
> > >>>>>>>>> think of idea#2?
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Thank You,
> > >>>>>>>>> Ewa.
> > >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>>>>>> dsdp-dd-dev mailing list
> > >>>>>>>>> dsdp-dd-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > >>>>>>>>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dsdp-dd-dev
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>>>>> dsdp-dd-dev mailing list
> > >>>>>>>> dsdp-dd-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > >>>>>>>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dsdp-dd-dev
> > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>>>> dsdp-dd-dev mailing list
> > >>>>>>> dsdp-dd-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > >>>>>>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dsdp-dd-dev
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>>> dsdp-dd-dev mailing list
> > >>>>>> dsdp-dd-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > >>>>>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dsdp-dd-dev
> > >>>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>> dsdp-dd-dev mailing list
> > >>>>> dsdp-dd-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > >>>>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dsdp-dd-dev
> > >>>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>> dsdp-dd-dev mailing list
> > >>>>> dsdp-dd-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > >>>>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dsdp-dd-dev
> > >>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>> dsdp-dd-dev mailing list
> > >>>> dsdp-dd-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > >>>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dsdp-dd-dev
> > >>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>> cdt-dev mailing list
> > >>>> cdt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > >>>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cdt-dev
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> cdt-dev mailing list
> > >>> cdt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > >>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cdt-dev
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> cdt-dev mailing list
> > >> cdt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > >> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cdt-dev
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> cdt-dev mailing list
> > >> cdt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > >> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cdt-dev
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > cdt-dev mailing list
> > > cdt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > > https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cdt-dev
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > cdt-dev mailing list
> > cdt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cdt-dev
> > _______________________________________________
> > dsdp-dd-dev mailing list
> > dsdp-dd-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dsdp-dd-dev
> >
> _______________________________________________
> cdt-dev mailing list
> cdt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cdt-dev
_______________________________________________
dsdp-dd-dev mailing list
dsdp-dd-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dsdp-dd-dev
