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[cdt-dev] New Debug Model (was: Editor technology subgroup)
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Hi,
while Doug Gaff is at the WR User Conference in Orlando,
let me go ahead and start the new thread :-)
Yes, Pawel P has made quite some progress on prototyping
against the Flexible Debug Model. Sine quite a bit of this
is based on former WR proprietary code, we'll need to wait
for IP clearance before we can actually make a contribution.
We hope this to happen anytime soon.
Cheers,
Martin
--
Martin Oberhuber - WindRiver, Austria
+43(662)457915-85
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dsdp-dd-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:dsdp-dd-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ewa Matejska
> Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 8:43 PM
> To: CDT General developers list.; Device Debugging developer
> discussions
> Subject: RE: [cdt-dev] RE: [dsdp-dd-dev] Editor technology subgroup
>
> Hi,
>
> I propose starting a new thread for future communications about the
> Debug Model since there's a technology subgroup in the
> DSDP-DD. I would
> like to leave this thread for Editor
> enhancement/ideas/requests focusing
> on embedded development.
>
> Thanks,
> Ewa.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cdt-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:cdt-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of Greg Watson
> Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 10:45 AM
> To: CDT General developers list.
> Subject: Re: [cdt-dev] RE: [dsdp-dd-dev] Editor technology subgroup
>
> I got confused by all the Dougs. :-) I'd like to work with anyone on
> this!
>
> Greg
>
> On May 12, 2006, at 9:48 AM, Mikhail Khodjaiants wrote:
>
> > Doug S,
> >
> > I sent my previous message before I saw yours. It is for Doug G
> >
> > Mikhail K
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Schaefer"
> <DSchaefer@xxxxxxx>
> > To: "CDT General developers list." <cdt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 11:46 AM
> > Subject: RE: [cdt-dev] RE: [dsdp-dd-dev] Editor technology subgroup
> >
> >
> >> Which Doug is everyone talking about :).
> >>
> >> Since the Greg's note was sent to cdt-dev, I thought it was for
> >> me. This
> >> note sounds like it is for Doug G...
> >>
> >> Doug Schaefer, QNX Software Systems
> >> Eclipse CDT Project Lead, Tools PMC member
> >> http://cdtdoug.blogspot.com
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: cdt-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:cdt-dev-
> >> bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On
> >> Behalf Of Mikhail Khodjaiants
> >> Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 11:35 AM
> >> To: CDT General developers list.
> >> Subject: Re: [cdt-dev] RE: [dsdp-dd-dev] Editor technology subgroup
> >>
> >> Doug,
> >>
> >> There was a special group formed among others at the last DSDP
> >> meeting to
> >> work on the design of the debug model. I volunteered to
> >> participate, but I
> >> haven't heard anything since. You mentioned that Pavel and
> Ted are
> >> doing
> >> some work in this direction. Is there any new information
> >> available on what
> >> they are doing?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Mikhail Khodjaiants
> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Watson"
> >> <g.watson@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> To: "CDT General developers list." <cdt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 11:11 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [cdt-dev] RE: [dsdp-dd-dev] Editor technology subgroup
> >>
> >>
> >>> Doug,
> >>>
> >>> I wonder if we could be involved in the design of the next
> >>> generation
> >>> debugger model? We're also looking at how to use the flexible
> >>> debug model
> >>
> >>> for the parallel debugger. Since we reused considerable
> portions
> >>> of CDT
> >>> debugger functionality in the parallel debugger implementation,
> >>> it would
> >>> make sense to try and combine efforts here.
> >>>
> >>> Greg
> >>>
> >>> On May 12, 2006, at 8:19 AM, Doug Schaefer wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> BTW, Welcome Toni!
> >>>>
> >>>> We've been in need of some focus on the CDT editor for a while
> >>>> and I
> >>>> look
> >>>> forward to your contributions.
> >>>>
> >>>> Cheers,
> >>>> Doug Schaefer, QNX Software Systems
> >>>> Eclipse CDT Project Lead, Tools PMC member
> >>>> http://cdtdoug.blogspot.com
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: dsdp-dd-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>> [mailto:dsdp-dd-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Gaff, Doug
> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 2:43 PM
> >>>> To: Device Debugging developer discussions
> >>>> Cc: Leherbauer, Anton; CDT General developers list.
> >>>> Subject: RE: [dsdp-dd-dev] Editor technology subgroup
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi folks,
> >>>>
> >>>> I've asked Toni Leherbauer from my team to provide input
> on the
> >>>> editor.
> >>>> Toni is currently looking at enhancing the CDT editor and is
> >>>> collecting
> >>>> some features on the CDT project plan.
> >>>> http://wiki.eclipse.org/index.php/CDT/planning/4.0
> >>>>
> >>>> Since there is interest in the editor in both the CDT and DD
> >>>> projects,
> >>>> we should keep both groups in the loop. And of course, we
> >>>> should have
> >>>> one editor solution in the end (in CDT). We started
> discussing
> >>>> this in
> >>>> the DD project in Toronto simply as a way to capture
> >>>> requirements as
> >>>> they related to debugging.
> >>>>
> >>>> Also, as I mentioned on the recent DD call, Ted and Pawel are
> >>>> working on
> >>>> a prototype for a generic debugger implementation of the
> Eclipse
> >>>> 3.2
> >>>> debug model interfaces (EDMI 3.2 for short). The goal
> is that this
> >>>> prototype will form the basis of a next-generation debugger
> >>>> model that
> >>>> benefits folks using CDT and folks working directly with the
> >>>> Eclipse
> >>>> platform today. We intend to get this committed in the
> next few
> >>>> weeks
> >>>> so that the community can start discussing architecture,
> >>>> interfaces, and
> >>>> requirements.
> >>>>
> >>>> So regarding the editor, I see open questions around how we
> >>>> integrate
> >>>> disassembly, breakpoints, instruction pointers, etc. with a new
> >>>> debugger
> >>>> implementation. I am also wondering how the editor will
> deal with
> >>>> multiple debug engines simultaneously (for example, how
> to set the
> >>>> default breakpoint scope).
> >>>>
> >>>> Doug
> >>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: dsdp-dd-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:dsdp-dd-dev-
> >>>>> bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Doug Schaefer
> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 2:18 PM
> >>>>> To: Device Debugging developer discussions
> >>>>> Subject: RE: [dsdp-dd-dev] Editor technology subgroup
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Well, the Using Visual C++ 5 book that I have in front
> of me right
> >>>> now,
> >>>>> copyright 1997, shows their Disassembly View which interleaves
> >>>>> source
> >>>> and
> >>>>> disassembly.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Mind you it's a view and not an editor. But then, why
> would you
> >>>>> edit
> >>>> in
> >>>>> this
> >>>>> window? Does the assembly get updated based on the source
> >>>>> changes you
> >>>>> make?
> >>>>> Can you edit the assembly and have the source updated?
> (That'd be
> >>>> cool,
> >>>>> BTW
> >>>>> :).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What was the original use case again?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>> Doug Schaefer, QNX Software Systems
> >>>>> Eclipse CDT Project Lead, Tools PMC member
> >>>>> http://cdtdoug.blogspot.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: dsdp-dd-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>> [mailto:dsdp-dd-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
> Recoskie,
> >>>>> Chris
> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 1:30 PM
> >>>>> To: Device Debugging developer discussions
> >>>>> Subject: RE: [dsdp-dd-dev] Editor technology subgroup
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm guessing the person I was talking to was referring to US
> >>>>> patent #
> >>>>> 6,493,868. Like I said I'm not a patent lawyer so I'm not
> >>>>> going to
> >>>>> comment as to whether or not it is truly applicable or
> not. It
> >>>>> seems
> >>>>> very broad and I'm not sure of the rules as to how it does or
> >>>>> does not
> >>>>> apply to specific features in IDEs.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Anyway take a look and due your due diligence. It may be a
> >>>>> non issue.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> =====================
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> United States Patent 6,493,868
> >>>>> DaSilva , et al. December 10, 2002
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> >>>> --- --
> >>>>> --------
> >>>>> Integrated development tool
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Abstract
> >>>>> An integrated code development tool, comprising of an editor, a
> >>>> project
> >>>>> management and build system, a debugger, a profiler, and a
> >>>>> graphical
> >>>>> data visualization system. The editor is operable to provide a
> >>>>> source
> >>>>> code view which is simultaneously capable of
> integrating with said
> >>>>> debugger to provide for stepping through code and setting
> >>>>> breakpoints,
> >>>>> and integrating with the output of said build system to
> >>>>> display source
> >>>>> code interleaved with corresponding assembler code
> created by said
> >>>> build
> >>>>> system.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ___________________________________________
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Chris Recoskie
> >>>>> Software Designer
> >>>>> Texas Instruments, Toronto
> >>>>> http://eclipse.org/cdt
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>> From: dsdp-dd-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:dsdp-dd-dev-
> >>>>>> bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John Cortell
> >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 11:51 AM
> >>>>>> To: Device Debugging developer discussions
> >>>>>> Subject: RE: [dsdp-dd-dev] Editor technology subgroup
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> If this is true, it's extremely surprising. Interleaved
> >>>>>> source/disassemble is a staple in many debuggers. How a company
> >>>> would
> >>>>>> go about successfully patenting the implementation of such a
> >>>>>> feature
> >>>>>> in an open source product is puzzling, to say the least.
> >>>> Copyrighting
> >>>>>> an implementation is one thing; patenting the idea is another
> >>>>>> story.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> John
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> At 10:28 AM 5/10/2006, Recoskie, Chris wrote:
> >>>>>>> A caveat:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I have heard that TI holds a patent on showing interleaved
> >>>>>>> source/disassembly in the editor window (but not in other
> >>>>>>> windows,
> >>>> so
> >>>>>>> the current Disassembly View does not infringe this
> patent as I
> >>>>>>> understand it). I don't think it would be any sort of
> >>>>>>> problem to
> >>>> get
> >>>>>>> this patent licensed royalty-free to Eclipse for such
> a feature,
> >>>> but
> >>>>> it
> >>>>>>> is an IP issue that will have to go through due
> diligence for
> >>>>>>> sure.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Disclaimer: I am not a patent lawyer and I have no
> authority to
> >>>>> license
> >>>>>>> the aforementioned patent, if it exists, on behalf of TI.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ___________________________________________
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Chris Recoskie
> >>>>>>> Software Designer
> >>>>>>> Texas Instruments, Toronto
> >>>>>>> http://eclipse.org/cdt
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>>> From: dsdp-dd-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:dsdp-dd-dev-
> >>>>>>>> bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John Cortell
> >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 9:19 AM
> >>>>>>>> To: Device Debugging developer discussions;
> >>>>> dsdp-dd-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [dsdp-dd-dev] Editor technology subgroup
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Ewa,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> What are the BV bug numbers? They're not Bugzilla
> reports from
> >>>>> what I
> >>>>>>> can
> >>>>>>>> tell.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I entered a bugzilla report for "Jump to Line" a while back
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=118147
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> We are also very interested in mixed disassembler/source mode
> >>>>>>>> debugging. It seems this would be best implemented
> if indeed
> >>>>>>>> all
> >>>>>>>> three modes are provided in the editor. Your
> suggested approach
> >>>>> seems
> >>>>>>>> feasible to me; the debugger could generate files on the fly.
> >>>> The
> >>>>>>>> trick would be to make that approach look natural
> to the user,
> >>>> so
> >>>>>>>> he's not aware that he's looking at a temporary file.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> John
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> At 08:46 PM 5/9/2006, Ewa Matejska wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I'm soliciting ideas for enhancements to the Editor to
> >>>>>>>>> improve
> >>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>> embedded development experience.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Possible ideas are:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> 1. Add the "Jump to Line" option the editor margin menu.
> >>>>> BV118147.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> 2. Merge the Disassembly view into the Editor.
> This could be
> >>>>>>>>> achieved in having a special read-only debug file for each
> >>>> debug
> >>>>>>>>> session whose state would toggle between source, disassembly
> >>>> and
> >>>>>>>>> mixed in some way. Related bug is BV39644.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> These ideas will be captured at:
> >>>>>>>>> http://wiki.eclipse.org/index.php/DSDP/DD/Editor
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Chris Recoskie, as the lead of the Disassembly View, what do
> >>>> you
> >>>>>>>>> think of idea#2?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Thank You,
> >>>>>>>>> Ewa.
> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>> dsdp-dd-dev mailing list
> >>>>>>>>> dsdp-dd-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>>>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dsdp-dd-dev
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> dsdp-dd-dev mailing list
> >>>>>>>> dsdp-dd-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dsdp-dd-dev
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>> dsdp-dd-dev mailing list
> >>>>>>> dsdp-dd-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dsdp-dd-dev
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> dsdp-dd-dev mailing list
> >>>>>> dsdp-dd-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dsdp-dd-dev
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> dsdp-dd-dev mailing list
> >>>>> dsdp-dd-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dsdp-dd-dev
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> dsdp-dd-dev mailing list
> >>>>> dsdp-dd-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dsdp-dd-dev
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> dsdp-dd-dev mailing list
> >>>> dsdp-dd-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dsdp-dd-dev
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> cdt-dev mailing list
> >>>> cdt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cdt-dev
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> cdt-dev mailing list
> >>> cdt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cdt-dev
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> cdt-dev mailing list
> >> cdt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cdt-dev
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> cdt-dev mailing list
> >> cdt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cdt-dev
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > cdt-dev mailing list
> > cdt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cdt-dev
>
> _______________________________________________
> cdt-dev mailing list
> cdt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cdt-dev
> _______________________________________________
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> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dsdp-dd-dev
>
