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RE: [cdt-dev] RE: [dsdp-dd-dev] Editor technology subgroup
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Hi,
I propose starting a new thread for future communications about the
Debug Model since there's a technology subgroup in the DSDP-DD. I would
like to leave this thread for Editor enhancement/ideas/requests focusing
on embedded development.
Thanks,
Ewa.
-----Original Message-----
From: cdt-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:cdt-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Greg Watson
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 10:45 AM
To: CDT General developers list.
Subject: Re: [cdt-dev] RE: [dsdp-dd-dev] Editor technology subgroup
I got confused by all the Dougs. :-) I'd like to work with anyone on
this!
Greg
On May 12, 2006, at 9:48 AM, Mikhail Khodjaiants wrote:
> Doug S,
>
> I sent my previous message before I saw yours. It is for Doug G
>
> Mikhail K
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Schaefer" <DSchaefer@xxxxxxx>
> To: "CDT General developers list." <cdt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 11:46 AM
> Subject: RE: [cdt-dev] RE: [dsdp-dd-dev] Editor technology subgroup
>
>
>> Which Doug is everyone talking about :).
>>
>> Since the Greg's note was sent to cdt-dev, I thought it was for
>> me. This
>> note sounds like it is for Doug G...
>>
>> Doug Schaefer, QNX Software Systems
>> Eclipse CDT Project Lead, Tools PMC member
>> http://cdtdoug.blogspot.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: cdt-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:cdt-dev-
>> bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On
>> Behalf Of Mikhail Khodjaiants
>> Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 11:35 AM
>> To: CDT General developers list.
>> Subject: Re: [cdt-dev] RE: [dsdp-dd-dev] Editor technology subgroup
>>
>> Doug,
>>
>> There was a special group formed among others at the last DSDP
>> meeting to
>> work on the design of the debug model. I volunteered to
>> participate, but I
>> haven't heard anything since. You mentioned that Pavel and Ted are
>> doing
>> some work in this direction. Is there any new information
>> available on what
>> they are doing?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Mikhail Khodjaiants
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Watson"
>> <g.watson@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: "CDT General developers list." <cdt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 11:11 AM
>> Subject: Re: [cdt-dev] RE: [dsdp-dd-dev] Editor technology subgroup
>>
>>
>>> Doug,
>>>
>>> I wonder if we could be involved in the design of the next
>>> generation
>>> debugger model? We're also looking at how to use the flexible
>>> debug model
>>
>>> for the parallel debugger. Since we reused considerable portions
>>> of CDT
>>> debugger functionality in the parallel debugger implementation,
>>> it would
>>> make sense to try and combine efforts here.
>>>
>>> Greg
>>>
>>> On May 12, 2006, at 8:19 AM, Doug Schaefer wrote:
>>>
>>>> BTW, Welcome Toni!
>>>>
>>>> We've been in need of some focus on the CDT editor for a while
>>>> and I
>>>> look
>>>> forward to your contributions.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Doug Schaefer, QNX Software Systems
>>>> Eclipse CDT Project Lead, Tools PMC member
>>>> http://cdtdoug.blogspot.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: dsdp-dd-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> [mailto:dsdp-dd-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Gaff, Doug
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 2:43 PM
>>>> To: Device Debugging developer discussions
>>>> Cc: Leherbauer, Anton; CDT General developers list.
>>>> Subject: RE: [dsdp-dd-dev] Editor technology subgroup
>>>>
>>>> Hi folks,
>>>>
>>>> I've asked Toni Leherbauer from my team to provide input on the
>>>> editor.
>>>> Toni is currently looking at enhancing the CDT editor and is
>>>> collecting
>>>> some features on the CDT project plan.
>>>> http://wiki.eclipse.org/index.php/CDT/planning/4.0
>>>>
>>>> Since there is interest in the editor in both the CDT and DD
>>>> projects,
>>>> we should keep both groups in the loop. And of course, we
>>>> should have
>>>> one editor solution in the end (in CDT). We started discussing
>>>> this in
>>>> the DD project in Toronto simply as a way to capture
>>>> requirements as
>>>> they related to debugging.
>>>>
>>>> Also, as I mentioned on the recent DD call, Ted and Pawel are
>>>> working on
>>>> a prototype for a generic debugger implementation of the Eclipse
>>>> 3.2
>>>> debug model interfaces (EDMI 3.2 for short). The goal is that this
>>>> prototype will form the basis of a next-generation debugger
>>>> model that
>>>> benefits folks using CDT and folks working directly with the
>>>> Eclipse
>>>> platform today. We intend to get this committed in the next few
>>>> weeks
>>>> so that the community can start discussing architecture,
>>>> interfaces, and
>>>> requirements.
>>>>
>>>> So regarding the editor, I see open questions around how we
>>>> integrate
>>>> disassembly, breakpoints, instruction pointers, etc. with a new
>>>> debugger
>>>> implementation. I am also wondering how the editor will deal with
>>>> multiple debug engines simultaneously (for example, how to set the
>>>> default breakpoint scope).
>>>>
>>>> Doug
>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: dsdp-dd-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:dsdp-dd-dev-
>>>>> bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Doug Schaefer
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 2:18 PM
>>>>> To: Device Debugging developer discussions
>>>>> Subject: RE: [dsdp-dd-dev] Editor technology subgroup
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, the Using Visual C++ 5 book that I have in front of me right
>>>> now,
>>>>> copyright 1997, shows their Disassembly View which interleaves
>>>>> source
>>>> and
>>>>> disassembly.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mind you it's a view and not an editor. But then, why would you
>>>>> edit
>>>> in
>>>>> this
>>>>> window? Does the assembly get updated based on the source
>>>>> changes you
>>>>> make?
>>>>> Can you edit the assembly and have the source updated? (That'd be
>>>> cool,
>>>>> BTW
>>>>> :).
>>>>>
>>>>> What was the original use case again?
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Doug Schaefer, QNX Software Systems
>>>>> Eclipse CDT Project Lead, Tools PMC member
>>>>> http://cdtdoug.blogspot.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: dsdp-dd-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> [mailto:dsdp-dd-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Recoskie,
>>>>> Chris
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 1:30 PM
>>>>> To: Device Debugging developer discussions
>>>>> Subject: RE: [dsdp-dd-dev] Editor technology subgroup
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm guessing the person I was talking to was referring to US
>>>>> patent #
>>>>> 6,493,868. Like I said I'm not a patent lawyer so I'm not
>>>>> going to
>>>>> comment as to whether or not it is truly applicable or not. It
>>>>> seems
>>>>> very broad and I'm not sure of the rules as to how it does or
>>>>> does not
>>>>> apply to specific features in IDEs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway take a look and due your due diligence. It may be a
>>>>> non issue.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> =====================
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> United States Patent 6,493,868
>>>>> DaSilva , et al. December 10, 2002
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> --- --
>>>>> --------
>>>>> Integrated development tool
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Abstract
>>>>> An integrated code development tool, comprising of an editor, a
>>>> project
>>>>> management and build system, a debugger, a profiler, and a
>>>>> graphical
>>>>> data visualization system. The editor is operable to provide a
>>>>> source
>>>>> code view which is simultaneously capable of integrating with said
>>>>> debugger to provide for stepping through code and setting
>>>>> breakpoints,
>>>>> and integrating with the output of said build system to
>>>>> display source
>>>>> code interleaved with corresponding assembler code created by said
>>>> build
>>>>> system.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ___________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris Recoskie
>>>>> Software Designer
>>>>> Texas Instruments, Toronto
>>>>> http://eclipse.org/cdt
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: dsdp-dd-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:dsdp-dd-dev-
>>>>>> bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John Cortell
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 11:51 AM
>>>>>> To: Device Debugging developer discussions
>>>>>> Subject: RE: [dsdp-dd-dev] Editor technology subgroup
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If this is true, it's extremely surprising. Interleaved
>>>>>> source/disassemble is a staple in many debuggers. How a company
>>>> would
>>>>>> go about successfully patenting the implementation of such a
>>>>>> feature
>>>>>> in an open source product is puzzling, to say the least.
>>>> Copyrighting
>>>>>> an implementation is one thing; patenting the idea is another
>>>>>> story.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At 10:28 AM 5/10/2006, Recoskie, Chris wrote:
>>>>>>> A caveat:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have heard that TI holds a patent on showing interleaved
>>>>>>> source/disassembly in the editor window (but not in other
>>>>>>> windows,
>>>> so
>>>>>>> the current Disassembly View does not infringe this patent as I
>>>>>>> understand it). I don't think it would be any sort of
>>>>>>> problem to
>>>> get
>>>>>>> this patent licensed royalty-free to Eclipse for such a feature,
>>>> but
>>>>> it
>>>>>>> is an IP issue that will have to go through due diligence for
>>>>>>> sure.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Disclaimer: I am not a patent lawyer and I have no authority to
>>>>> license
>>>>>>> the aforementioned patent, if it exists, on behalf of TI.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ___________________________________________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chris Recoskie
>>>>>>> Software Designer
>>>>>>> Texas Instruments, Toronto
>>>>>>> http://eclipse.org/cdt
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: dsdp-dd-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:dsdp-dd-dev-
>>>>>>>> bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John Cortell
>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 9:19 AM
>>>>>>>> To: Device Debugging developer discussions;
>>>>> dsdp-dd-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [dsdp-dd-dev] Editor technology subgroup
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ewa,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What are the BV bug numbers? They're not Bugzilla reports from
>>>>> what I
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>> tell.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I entered a bugzilla report for "Jump to Line" a while back
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=118147
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We are also very interested in mixed disassembler/source mode
>>>>>>>> debugging. It seems this would be best implemented if indeed
>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>> three modes are provided in the editor. Your suggested approach
>>>>> seems
>>>>>>>> feasible to me; the debugger could generate files on the fly.
>>>> The
>>>>>>>> trick would be to make that approach look natural to the user,
>>>> so
>>>>>>>> he's not aware that he's looking at a temporary file.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> At 08:46 PM 5/9/2006, Ewa Matejska wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm soliciting ideas for enhancements to the Editor to
>>>>>>>>> improve
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> embedded development experience.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Possible ideas are:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1. Add the "Jump to Line" option the editor margin menu.
>>>>> BV118147.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2. Merge the Disassembly view into the Editor. This could be
>>>>>>>>> achieved in having a special read-only debug file for each
>>>> debug
>>>>>>>>> session whose state would toggle between source, disassembly
>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> mixed in some way. Related bug is BV39644.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> These ideas will be captured at:
>>>>>>>>> http://wiki.eclipse.org/index.php/DSDP/DD/Editor
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Chris Recoskie, as the lead of the Disassembly View, what do
>>>> you
>>>>>>>>> think of idea#2?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thank You,
>>>>>>>>> Ewa.
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> dsdp-dd-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>> dsdp-dd-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dsdp-dd-dev
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> dsdp-dd-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>> dsdp-dd-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dsdp-dd-dev
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> dsdp-dd-dev mailing list
>>>>>>> dsdp-dd-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dsdp-dd-dev
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> dsdp-dd-dev mailing list
>>>>>> dsdp-dd-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dsdp-dd-dev
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> dsdp-dd-dev mailing list
>>>>> dsdp-dd-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dsdp-dd-dev
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> dsdp-dd-dev mailing list
>>>>> dsdp-dd-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dsdp-dd-dev
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> dsdp-dd-dev mailing list
>>>> dsdp-dd-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dsdp-dd-dev
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> cdt-dev mailing list
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>>>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cdt-dev
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
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>
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