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Re: [buckminster-dev] Dependency Visualization

Dann,

Comments below.

Dann Martens wrote:
Here we go again :)

I feel some of the reply you've formulated doesn't address what I've tried to convey.
That may well be.

As far as Buckminster is concerned, I have managed to build a complete working build system with additional plug-ins without any need of EMF, already two years ago.
Cool.
I see no compelling reason to introduce EMF now, as what I feel is needed to further Buckminster is totally unrelated.
Buckminster serves a community so it's useful to get feedback from it.
I'm interested in having Buckminster stable (which it isn't) and in contributing back what I added myself at that point.
Perhaps contributing back will help with stability?
I really see no reason at all to warrant this diversion.
That's your subjective opinion, but in the end, the people who do the actual work make the choices, of course taking into account opinions from the community and the substance behind those opinions.
This has nothing to do with the qualities of EMF itself, but I will not support this decision.
You've described installing EMF as a nightmare, EMF has a bloated behemoth, and its use as an unwarranted diversion. You've complained dramatically about a tummy ache and your need to sit down. Yet still you claim to have made no value judgment of EMF.

We can argue and misunderstand each other as much as you want,
So not only am I being perhaps dishonest, misunderstandings are something I desire...
but this feels like a real waste of my time.
Helping Buckminster get value from EMF isn't a waste of my time, and working with the community, even when it's occasionally hostile, isn't either.
And I'm sure yours as well.
It's my time to spend and for me to decide how best to spend it.
For a silly build tool, no less.
As far as I'm concerned, the biggest problem with builds is the attitude that they're silly and working on them is beneath real developers. If you ask almost any developer at Eclipse, they'll explain that builds are the bane of their existence, that they happily delegate it all to someone else. But there's nothing silly about builds. In fact, we ought to treated the problem as the most fundamentally important problem to solve when it comes to ensuring that the goodness we develop ends up coming out of the pipeline and feeding to those who consume it. I'll climb down off my build soap box now. :-P

I'm thinking the only real substance in your stated concerns is installation problems, yet what you describe isn't something familiar to me. I'm wondering why components like GEF, which are also widely used in other Eclipse projects, don't cause the same installations nightmares that EMF does. I.e., what's fundamentally different about dependencies on GEF verses dependencies on EMF? Neither are in the platform and both need additional installation...

Best regards,
 Dann


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