Re: [aspectj-users] CNET News.com Article on AOP

["Wes Isberg" <wes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi William -

I liked your intriguing problem statement:

  until we solved how to handle the direct/indirect
  interactions between different aspects on common
  object/component models.

Do you have some examples in mind?  Can you say when
the interactions are destructive?  Is it only at a
particular join point, or are you thinking also of
other interactions?  Some can be handled with aspect
precedence.  Can you think of mechanisms to handle
others? 

Can we compare AspectJ and JBoss on this point and
show that one is better than the other?

Thanks!
Wes



On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:00:38 +0200
 "Louth, William" <william.louth@xxxxxx> wrote:
> Ron,
> 
> I did not really like the reference to your view that AOP
> (AspectJ) code
> tends to be better. This could be attributed to the fact
> that early
> adopters tend to be skillful engineers who recognize a
> new tool and its
> application to their problems, ;-).
> 
> I am sure that as soon AOP becomes mainstream you will
> see poor designs
> and code as people apply the technology wrongly - which
> is what happened
> to EJB.
> 
> I believe that AOP has a promising future for complex
> development
> projects in the hands of experienced engineers but as I
> have stated
> previously the more I apply AOP the more I am drawn into
> refactoring
> existing designs and code. AOP will not solve a poor
> design and it
> proves quite hard to introduce it into systems which have
> not been
> designed with this in mind. There still exists problems
> with scaling AOP
> to large projects. I really hope that JBoss's framework
> does not become
> widely used until we solved how to handle the
> direct/indirect
> interactions between different aspects on common
> object/component
> models.
> 
> Its great to see AOP having greater media coverage but I
> hope we don't
> promise too much.
> 
> All the best,
> 
> William Louth
> William.louth@xxxxxx
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ron Bodkin [mailto:rbodkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] 
> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 4:28 PM
> To: aspectj-users@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [aspectj-users] CNET News.com Article on AOP
> 
> 
> Indeed, the JBoss crew view aspect-oriented programming
> as a means of
> implementing attribute-oriented programming, and that
> perspective is
> clear in the article. And therefore it's also the
> emphasis of their
> message, namely fighting C#. This is probably an attempt
> to pull
> together with the rest of the Java world, by focusing on
> a common enemy
> in Microsoft.
> 
> However, the article does discuss defining rules and
> enforcing policies
> for the entire system, which isn't something that
> attribute-oriented can
> do (at least not completely). Given the audience is
> non-programmers, I
> think the description is reasonable.
> 
> Overall, having AOP hit the radar screen like this is
> helpful, even
> though I'd like to see the title be "Growth in AOP for
> Enterprise Java."
> Feel free to encourage Marc Fleury to change his message
> ...
> 
> Ron
> 
> Ron Bodkin
> Chief Technology Officer
> New Aspects of Security
> m: (415) 509-2895
> 
> > ------------Original Message-------------
> > From: Carlos E Perez <ceperez@xxxxxxxxx>
> > To: aspectj-users@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > Date: Thu, Sep-25-2003 3:30 AM
> > Subject: Re: [aspectj-users] CNET News.com Article on
> AOP
> > 
> > It's good PR, however, the main theme of the article,
> > that is "a way to fight the rising popularity of C#"
> completely 
> > distracts the audience from the real issue.
> > 
> > The other problem is the association of Aspect
> > programming with Attribute based programming.  If you
> replaced 
> > "Aspect-oriented" with "Attribute-based" this article
> would have made 
> > more sense.
> > 
> > Carlos
> > 
> > 
> > --- Ron Bodkin <rbodkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > This article was published today as the lead story
> > > on CNET News.com:
> http://news.com.com/2100-1007_3-5081831.html.  
> > > It's good to see the increase in interest and
> awareness
> > > of AOP from industry news sources (as well as
> > > industry analysts).
> > > 
> > > Ron
> > > 
> > > Ron Bodkin
> > > Chief Technology Officer
> > > New Aspects of Security
> > > m: (415) 509-2895
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> > >
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> > 
> > 
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