Re: [aspectj-users] Applying Aspects to business applications

[Arno Schmidmeier <A@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Thursday 16 January 2003 19:51, Carlos Lizarralde wrote:
> I think Aspect Programming implies a change in the way we solve problems
> with OOP. This change requires the cleaning of some ideas we assume as
> obvious.

I agree here. This was my experience in the AOP projects, I have done with 
Sirius Software. AOP is a much more sophisticated programming paradigm than 
OOP. It does need a mindshift to unleash its full strength. However that 
mindshift may take quite long.
Good experienced AOP consultants can speed up this process dramatically.
(And help over the new adopter hasles)

But, please do not missunderstand me. 
AOP CAN AND SHOULD still applied by OO-people. They simply do not get the full 
value from AOP. But what they get is still worth all the adoption hasle.
>
> In my opinion AspectJ will evolve as we start using it for something else
> than logging, security, contract enforcement, validations, etc. It's a
> challenge I am trying to deal with and I like it.
>

Yes, but I believe AspectJ is not far away from that. What changed much more 
in our projects is how AspectJ is used. (And we have used AspectJ far beyond 
logging, security, contract enforcement, validations, etc)

kind regards
   Arno

******************************************************************************
Arno Schmidmeier
+49/9151/90 50 30
or A@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
******************************************************************************
Yes, I have realized several projects with AspectJ.
Yes, I do provide consulting for AspectJ.

> Excuse my spanglish  as I am Argentine.
> Greetings,
> Charly
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Arno Schmidmeier <A@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: aspectj-users@xxxxxxxxxxx, "John R" <john_ela@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 21:46:50 +0100
> Subject: Re: [aspectj-users] Applying Aspects to business applications
>
> > Hello John,
> >
> > On Wednesday 15 January 2003 19:11, John R wrote:
> > > Hello all,
> > >
> > > I'm not sure if this is the right forum to be asking this question;
> >
> > if
> >
> > > there is a better one I would appreciate a pointer to the right
> >
> > discussion
> >
> > > group.
> > >
> > > I am learning about AOP and have read through several tutorials and
> > > documents.  I'm having a hard time thinking about ways to apply
> > > "crosscutting concerns" to handle business logic.
> >
> > Some of my experience: The most obvious "crosscutting concerns" are
> > "architecture concerns" as you have named them. From my experience you
> > should
> > need to have some AOP experience or have some sessions with a good AOP
> > consultant, to be capable to identify the business concerns.
> > Most OO-developers I have trained in AspectJ, they were simply
> > "blinded", by
> > exisiting OO-approaches to implement business concerns.
> >
> > > Almost every AOP example
> > > discusses the implementation of aspects in logging or enforcing
> >
> > contracts
> >
> > > but can anyone give an example of how an aspect can be applied in a
> >
> > way to
> >
> > > encapsulate a croscutting business logic concern (rather than an
> > > architecture concern like logging)?
> >
> > Yes, I can.
> >
> > > Can anyone think of (or direct me to an article) that discusses the
> > > implementation of AOP to handle the business logic of an application
> >
> > rather
> >
> > > than the architecture of an application?
> >
> > I will have a speak at the next AOSD about my experience using AspectJ
> > to
> > integrate Applications easier into an EAI project.
> > Implementing Business Rules with AOP is another quite interesting
> > topic.
> > You can either glue a rule engine to the system, or even implement the
> > business rule in plain java. Both approaches are IMHO superior against
> > the
> > current state of the art.
> > Maja`d Hondt has published some articles about that topic.
> >
> > <off-topic>
> > I am very interested to participate on such a project on reduced rates,
> > and
> > create a case study afterwards, because it fits very nicely into my
> > research
> > plan.
> > </off-topic>
> >
> > another crosscutting concern is the notification of the MVC-pattern in
> > most of
> > the swing classes.
> >
> > kind regards
> >    Arno
> >
> > ***********************************************************************
> > ******
> > Arno Schmidmeier
> > +49/9151/90 50 30
> > or A@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > ***********************************************************************
> > *******
> > Yes, I have realized several projects with AspectJ.
> > Yes, I do provide consulting for AspectJ.
> >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > -John R.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> > --
> >
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