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[alf-dev] RE: ALF Source Code Mangement Vocabulary Meeting +1-303-928-3232 id 6053141# Wednesday 10:00AM PDT - meeting minutes

Meeting Minutes
ALF Source Code Management Vocabulary Meeting, Wednesday May 10th at
10:00AM PDT

Agenda
0. Last week's minutes (below)
1. Status on Wikki
2. Status on tasks

T3. Pick a couple of use cases to fully flesh out as examples. - Richard
Title with assistence of others.  (Note: This was not explicilty agreed
to but implied so I'm reaching - sorry Richard) 
T4. Enhance the ALF architecture section - Tim Buss - due May 10 
T5. Review concepts for completeness and clarity.  - All - due May 3 
T6. Update concepts from notes as appropriate - Richard Title - due May
3 
T7. Discuss "Workspace" - no date set.
T8. Concept "Data Model - Brian - due May 10 
T9. Add SCM product equivalent terms to concepts - due May 10
		Richard Title
		Adam Simantel
T10. Component concept expansion - Brian - due May 10 

3. Comments on use cases presented last week. 
4. Pick a couple of use cases to fully flesh out as examples 
5. Any other business

Tim Buss - Serena. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Buss
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 11:38 AM
To: 'ALF Developer Mailing List'
Subject: RE: ALF Source Code Mangement Vocabulary Meeting
+1-303-928-3232 id 6053141# Wednesday 10:00AM PDT - meeting minutes

Meeting Minutes
ALF Source Code Management Vocabulary Meeting, Wednesday May 03th at
10:00AM PDT

Planned Agenda
0. Last week's minutes (below)
1. Review use cases we have so far
2. Pick a couple of use cases to fully flesh out as examples 3. Discuss
work assignments 4. Any other business

Attendees
Tim Buss - Serena
Brian Carrol - Serena
Adam Simantel - Serena
Betsy Fry - Serena
Glen Everett - Compuware
Eric Minick - Urban Code
Scott McGrath - Accurev
Richard Title - Accurev
Mark Phippard - Soft Landing
John Streiff - Secure Software


0. Last week's minutes
	We didn't actually discuss this but please reply with any
corrections. We did review the concepts presented last week:
	Concepts Discussion
	Component - is it versionable?  Since it is a set of elements
then the set of elements may change over time and therefore it might be
useful.  However this may be addressed other ways. Fex. Elements are
versionable and Baselines define set as set of element versions. Thus
the version of a Component may be defined by a baseline that identifies
a set of element versions within that Component. (tip/head could be
considered a special case of implicit baseline)
	Branch/Stream - this includes the idea of "configuration"

1. Review use cases we have so far
	Richard described the use case in the document
	StopEdit (and other use cases) have additiona details (options)
not explicitly mentioned (eg does the workspace copy of the element
revert or not)
	Rollback - is not generally supported - destroying history is a
specialized operation.
	Rename was identified as missing
	Refactoring (similar to renaming) and MetaData operations were
other suggested additions

	General observation - The use cases presented so far are close
to the "primitive" level.  We need to relate the to higher level
integration type use cases to ensure we are on the right track for ALF.
We also need to identify the "ALF" events that may be involved in these
use cases.

2. Pick a couple of use cases to fully flesh out as examples
	We will discuss this next week.  Please bring suggestions.

3. Work Assignments
These are delivered:
T1. Try to confirm our use of the Wikki - We will try to use the
"Richard Gross" wikki.  He has been travelling but should be available
soon to assist in the administration of this - Tim Buss 

T2. "Write an introduction to the SCM Vocabulary effort stating
philosophy, goals etc." - Scott McGrath in the next couple of weeks.
Looks like Richard T had a go at this.  Scott, did you have more in
mind?

These are still pending.

T3. Pick a couple of use cases to fully flesh out as examples. - Richard
Title with assistence of others.  (Note: This was not explicilty agreed
to but implied so I'm reaching - sorry Richard)

T4. Enhance the ALF architecture section - Tim Buss - due May 10 T5.
Review concepts for completeness and clarity.  - All - due May 3 T6.
Update concepts from notes as appropriate - Richard Title - due May 3
T7. Discuss "Workspace" - no date set.

These are new
T8. Concept "Data Model - Brian - due May 10 T9. Add SCM product
equivalent terms to concepts - due May 10
		Richard Title
		Adam Simantel
T10. Component concept expansion - Brian - due May 10 

4. Other Business
	none raise partly due to time.  If you have any please reply to
this email.

Tim Buss - Serena. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Buss
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 11:47 AM
To: 'ALF Developer Mailing List'
Subject: RE: [alf-dev] ALF Source Code Maangement Vocabulary
Meeting+1-303-928-3232 id 6053141# 10:00AM PDT - Meeting Minutes

Meeting Minutes
ALF Source Code Management Vocabulary Meeting, Wednesday April 26th at
10:00AM PDT

Agenda
0. Last week's minutes (below)
1. Wikki update
2. Discuss Richard Title's "Word" document 3. Discuss work assignments
4. Any other business

Attendees
Tim Buss - Serena
Brian Carrol - Serena
Eric Minick - Urban Code
Scott McGrath - Accurev
Richard Title - Accurev
Glenn Everett - Compuware
Bob Brady - Segue

0. last week's minutes were accepted

1. Wikki Update
Daniel Gross will be moving the hosting of the current wikki to the
University of Toronto. He hoes to ba able to address the questions in
the next week.  We should manually back up any changes to the current
wikki to be sure although it should be being backed up by the host.
Hoepfully we will have this availabe next week.

2. Richard's document
There have been some email exchanges on this It was suggested that the
architechture section needed some more clarification and refinement
Richard described the 9 "Concepts"

Workspace
A fair amount of discussion since it has both client side and server
side implications and is related to file transfer. We defered a detailed
discussion to a later date.  Some notes:

Servers can know about "profiles" or "templates" of workspace.  May
store a workspace configuration for a user.  May not.
Maybe often a client side notion
Notion remote update of workspaces - push model.
Pull model may be more common.  
SCM usually has a client and server components More discussion required
Take a look at JSR147

File, Directory
No issues raised

Element
Main issue is that commonly identified by path but path can be an
arbitrary identifier and really need to expose unique ID. Some notes:
Different models of naming - name belongs to directory vs name belongs
to file Path has context in workspace or configuration. Can change if
name is changed.
Element ID may be important.
Alias support?

Version
What about folder/Directory versioning?

ChangeSet
Important for issue tracking tools.

Branch/Stream
Promotion sets = stream
Related to workspace configuration.  A workspace might work on a branch.
Or the workspace might work under a stream

Baselines
Label can be used for this.  Timestamps can be used.

Component
May be define by a directory structure.

3. Discuss work assignments
We ran out of time to discuss this formally but the following seems to
reflect the current state.

These are delivered:
T2. "Write an introduction to the SCM Vocabulary effort stating
philosophy, goals etc." - Scott McGrath in the next couple of weeks.
Looks like Richard T had a go at this.  Scott, did you have more in
mind?

These are still pending.
T1. Try to confirm our use of the Wikki - Tim Buss - due May 3 

T3. Pick a couple of use cases to fully flesh out as examples. - Richard
Title with assistence of others.  (Note: This was not explicilty agreed
to but implied so I'm reaching - sorry Richard)

These are new
T4. Enhance the ALF architecture section - Tim Buss - due May 10 T5.
Review concepts for completeness and clarity.  - All - due May 3 T6.
Update concepts from notes as appropriate - Richard Title - due May 3
T7. Discuss "Workspace" - no date set.

4. Any other business
Not other business was proposed.

Next week we will discuss the set of use cases we have so far and
perhaps try to start T3 (see above).  Please review the use cases and
make additions if you have them.

Tim Buss
Serena Software Inc.

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Buss
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 1:06 PM
To: 'ALF Developer Mailing List'
Subject: RE: [alf-dev] ALF Source Code Maangement Vocabulary
Meeting+1-303-928-3232 id 6053141# 10:00AM PDT - Meeting Minutes

Meeting Minutes
ALF Source Code Management Vocabulary Meeting, Wednesday April 19th at
10:00AM PDT

Agenda

0. Last week's minutes (below)
1. Wikki update
2. Discuss milestone dates and who can do what.
3. Discuss Richard T's proposal (below)
4. Any other business

Attendees
Tim Buss - Serena
Brian Carrol - Serena
Jamey Clark - Serena
Eric Minick - Urban Code
Scott McGrath - Accurev
Richard Title - Accurev
Mark Phippard - Soft Landing

0. It was agreed that last week's minutes reflected that meeting except
for a name confusion - its Daniel Gross not Richard Gross (sorry Daniel)

1. Wikki update
We cannot use the eclipse provided wikki because it is open to
committers only We are investigating using the wikki prvided by Daniel
Gross.  I have contacted Daniel to discuss some particulars.  Mark P has
added and SCM document but we should regard this as experimental until I
have confirmation from Daniel. (ie please keep copies of anything you
add to the wikki)

It was suggested that email concerning the ALF Vocabulary should
generally be sent via this mailing list (alf-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx) 

2. Discuss milestone dates and who can do what.

Milestone dates for the SCM vocabulary effort were discussed and agreed
to be reasonable

	Deliver the "Final" Use Case and Concepts document	- June
30th
	Deliver the "Final" Schema and WSDL
- August 31st
	Deliver Subversion and CVS example services		-
October 31st

Specific assignments so far are as follows:

	Update Wikki with comments sent via email - Mark Phippard
	Write an introduction to the SCM Vocabualry effort stating
philosophy, goals etc. - Scott McGrath
	Produce the final Case and Concepts document - Richard Title
	Implement the Subversion example service -  Mark Phippard

It was suggested that we could divide the work by "use case" once we
established and agreed to one or two.  

3. Discuss Richard T's proposal
The main discussion centered around the need for a "workspace" service
to isolate and standardize the file transfer aspect of SCM.  To quote
from an email I sent previously on this subject.

"One other aspect that is not so far included in the list is the
practical aspect or what a "workspace" means in an ALF context.  ALF
operates, chiefly, on the server side.  This presents a number of
difficulties that are outside the norm of traditional SCM usage.  In ALF
it seem likley that we will want to enable sharing a workspace between
tools with ALF service flows being the arbiter of access.  We will also
want to avoid flowing file content through the BPEL engine.

This implies the need for a "workspace" service which may be either
provided by the SCM or be an independent service.  This service would
provide locations to which files could be checked out to, made available
to tools and checked in from.  The ALF service flow would use this
service to allocate a workspace and then delegate SCM commands that
require file transfer operations to that service.  Ther service should
provide a number of means to allow remote access the workspace files
(eg.  File share, web service copy, ftp stc.) so that tools may get
either directly access or get a copy of the files in the workspace."

There was general agreement on the need for such a service.  The details
need to be worked out.

4. Other Business
It was suggested that we may want to enlarge the scope fo the SCM
vocabualry to include "Configuration management".  The primary
difference was in the generality of the item being versioned; a source
file, some other kind of file, and abstract entity described by meta
data. The general consensus was that this might be a good idea but that
it might not work well since we may not have the subject matter
expertise in areas beyond Source control.  An approach suggested was
that we proceed assuming SCM and re-visit the more general aspect once
we are ready to design the schema/WSDL.  Ways of factoring that to
provide a common base my present themselves at that time.

Action Items.
1. Try to confirm our use of the Wikki - Tim Buss 2. "Write an
introduction to the SCM Vocabualry effort stating philosophy, goals
etc." - Scott McGrath in the next couple of weeks 3.  Pick a couple of
use cases to fully flesh out as examples. - Richard Title with
assistence of others.  (Note: This was not explicilty agreed to but
implied so I'm reaching - sorry Richard)

Tim Buss,
Serena Software Inc


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